This category is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
This category is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Ships, a project to improve all Ship-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other articles, please join the project, or contribute to the project discussion. All interested editors are welcome. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.ShipsWikipedia:WikiProject ShipsTemplate:WikiProject ShipsShips articles
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.
Comment: That's why I proposed the China category as opposed to a PLAN or even PRC category. The broader category makes it unnecessary to delve into the intricacies of the ownership and operational histories of the Minsk and Varyag, which haven't always been clear or stable. Readers can read the articles to learn the detailed stories. Joshbaumgartner17:32, 25 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Unlike submarines, there's little use of aircraft carriers functioning as such outside of military. Both Varyag and Minsk are not being used as aircraft carriers, and Varyag has never been used as such. That was why I suggested to delete the category. If the category is to be kept, it'd better be renamed to avoid possible ambiguity, and to go in line with naming conventions. — Instantnood21:00, 25 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Delete China has no aircraft carriers. It has a former aircraft carrier parked in a theme park and rusting hull in a dock. What, if I write up some articles about the history of the original boats in Submarine Voyage can I create Category:Submarines of Disneyland as a sub-cat of Category:Navy of California? If I browse to a sub-cat of the Chinese military, I expect to find military ships. Not theme park rides or a rusting hull that were military ships for other countries who eventually were retired in China. There are mothballed ships in the US that came from the Eastern Bloc too, there was a former Soviet sub docked in Elliot Bay for several years, but even if they had Wikipedia articles they wouldn't belong to a military of the US category. SchmuckyTheCat00:11, 26 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
COMMENT I see no reason not to have Submarines of Disneyland if you can make the submarines in Submarine Voyage notable enough to have articles. A systematic bias against commercial submarines is a bad idea. I don't see why you would have it as a subcat of Navy of California, instead of ships of California (if somesuch category exists). As for military theme-park, if it's a museum display, sure, keep it as an aircraft carrier. If it's a "demonstration" ship, ditto. As for rusting hulks... we have the USS United States, an aircraft carrier that has never been in service, that was never completed, in the aircraft carrier categories, and the HMS Queen Elizabeth never started construction. The Varyag is intact, such as it is, and was not shipped to China to be sent to the breakers, and is owned by Chinese interests. 132.205.44.13402:20, 26 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Comment agreed with above. The category need to be retained because it is a subject people will be looking for information on. They can then read the individual articles to learn the real stories behind these supposed aircraft carriers. There are numerous articles about proposed or half-built ships and the like which never entered service, but they still are notable for researchers. If the category simply doesn't exist, then some may conclude that Wiki has no articles on the matter. Joshbaumgartner21:53, 26 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Yes, but these ships have other categories they belong to - indeed, that they are better known for. It's not like these two articles will be lost without this category. SchmuckyTheCat23:52, 29 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.
.jpg)
