Talk:Tsifteteli

Albanian?

Unfortunately I have no reliable sources, but a professor of linguistics at my university postulates that the origin of the dance is most likely from Albania. It's possibly a dance that was performed alongside the Albanian instrument Çifteli. My personal guess is that the dance evolved during the ottoman empire, since Albania was part of it. Jubeidono (talk) 17:02, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

greek dance???

It gave me great laugh to read that Çiftetelli is greek. It's name and origin is obviously turkish. I edited the ethimology. In fact the article aprroves that çiftetelli is brought to Grecce from MicraAsia which is in fact Turkey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.133.129.16 (talk) 13:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I assume you mean "etymology;" it's good that someone edited the text, but allow me to correct you on one and only matter: Asia Minor ("Μικρά Ασία" is the Greek equivalent) is a region, and thus any assertions as to the origin of a dance by it's current inhabitors alone is, by definition, false; literally dozens of populations have lived in this area, apparently due to its placement on the map that makes it excellent for trade and a number of other endeavors. Finally, please do refrain from indirectly insulting others, especially if you don't mean to sign up on Wikipedia as a permanent member: you wouldn't want to receive an anonymous letter saying that they laugh at what you claimed, right? Still, your edits are very welcome. - RaspK FOG (talk) 08:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

redirect problems

The referenced Turkish traditional dance link just redirects to this article. Pretty much useless.--Vidkun 17:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Does any one else think that the picture in the article does not represent the dance in question? It has to be removed/replaced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.238.115 (talk) 09:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

It gave me great laugh to read that Çiftetelli is greek. It's name and origin is obviously turkish. I edited the ethimology. In fact the article aprroves that çiftetelli is brought to Grecce from MicraAsia which is in fact Turkey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.133.129.16 (talk) 13:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

   I assume you mean "etymology;" it's good that someone edited the text, but allow me to correct you on one and only matter: Asia Minor ("Μικρά Ασία" is the Greek equivalent) is a region, and thus any assertions as to the origin of a dance by it's current inhabitors alone is, by definition, false; literally dozens of populations have lived in this area, apparently due to its placement on the map that makes it excellent for trade and a number of other endeavors. Finally, please do refrain from indirectly insulting others, especially if you don't mean to sign up on Wikipedia as a permanent member: you wouldn't want to receive an anonymous letter saying that they laugh at what you claimed, right? Still, your edits are very welcome. - RaspK FOG (talk) 08:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC) 

It is really funny and absurd to assert that this dance is greek. What is the greek name of it? Let me guess "tsciftetelli" which have totally adopted from the Turkish originated word.Yes, it is true that there were many different populations from various ethnic origins inhabitied in "Anatolia" (the word comes from Summerians word to use god of sky An-Ana). However, none of them using different word to describe çiftetelli dance including romeikas.If it had been "already existed in ancient greek" as it is mentioned in the wikipedia page; pages of the references should have specifically mentioned with its english translations as well as the sources supporting the author (e.g.primary sources). Furthermore, the name of the dance in the ancient era had been clearly written. I think, all of the arguement just this is greek dance that is greek cafe discussions just based on the the denial of so called Modern Greeks refusel of their Ottomanized Romeika origin.That's all... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.3.193.72 (talk) 20:26, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

In serious need of editing!

This article suffers from typographical and spelling errors, bad syntax, and unnecessarily convoluted diction; please check up on your contributions and take more care of them - the state this article is in is awful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RaspK FOG (talk • contribs) 16:50, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Move

I am moving this article to "Çiftetelli", as "Greece" is not listed under "Yunanistan", "Çiftetelli" can not be listed under "Tsifteteli"

--Eae1983 (talk) 12:30, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

New home

I will also now that the page his moved, make some clarifications about the geography, since it is a dance found all over the ex-ottoman empire.

--Eae1983 (talk) 12:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, it looks like something now. Cheers! --Eae1983 (talk) 12:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Arabic?

Does it also exist in Arabic culture? Badagnani (talk) 21:29, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

It does in ethnically arab provinces of Turkey, I guess it can also exist among arabs. --85.99.77.96 (talk) 15:17, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Enlisting countries where it is famous and has contributed to its spread and the meaning of the dance

Could we add the meaning of the dance in a separate wide section and another with a list of all the countries that have the dance or contributed to it in any sort? --87.221.5.240 (talk) 21:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

We could do all of these, my dear friend, and I invite you HERE to discuss about any changes you wish to make, before you actually do them. Also please stop asserting nationalist comments in our talk pages such as "everyone knows very well that when that dance was invented, Turks did not exist.".. AHEMMM... (What about Turks in Asia and China, and the large majority of Ottomans in Anatolia were what, Aliens?). Again, next time you will change something please provide factual accuracy other than Greek Propaganda. (It's "Çiftetelli" by the way)

Anyways, as much as I love Greeks and Greek Language and Culture, people with immature ideas like you give sometimes a very retarded image of Greece. For your information, I brought the article to that level by working hand in hand with a Greek expert and also fending off some Turkish Ultra-Nationalism.

Cheers!! --Eae1983 (talk) 22:50, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Spelling

Hi! What is the correct spelling? one or two L ? TsifteLLi or TsifteteLi?

Well in greek it τσιφτετέλι with 1L, in turkish its çiftetelli with 2l. Yangula (talk) 09:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Given that Tsifteteli is a transliteration of the Greek spelling, it should have one L. The Turkish word is presumably pronounced "Chiftetelli", but there is no "ch" (as in "church") in demotic Athenian Greek. TS is the nearest sound in Greek - so the word became Tsifteteli when imported into Greek.StefanosPavlos (talk) 15:49, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Recently edits:

Hello, your recently edits you have done, seems to be unconstractive:

• 1.You removed a reliable image: (unexplained rm).

• 2.You made a distorted edits on the reference, by removing the phrase: this is the ancient Greek Aristophanic dance, known as Cordax, which is included both in Musipedia: "τσιφτετέλι". (This goes against: Wikipedia:Huggle).

• 3.You removed the whole section of Tsifteteli in Greece, but you know that the name of this article is by itself, the name for the Greek style of the bellydance, too!.

Anyone could easily have removed, any of the following edits of the section In turkish too, but is not appropriate. These unconstractive edits goes against only the Greek part of this article, and leads to the statement of an editing war. Users are expected to collaborate each other and avoid editing disruptively. -Kordax (talk) 06:16, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

The phrase "reliable image" makes no sense; images are not sources. Also, the phrase "goes against Wikipedia:Huggle" makes no sense; Huggle is not a policy. You'll have to Find a secondary source to support connection of tsifteteli with ancient dances; tertiary sources and encyclopedias like Musipedia are only borderline reliable. The section Tsifteteli in Greece was full of far-fetched statements not supported by any source (not to mention that the section was written by a banned user). Removal of dubious unsourced material is legitimate. Cheers. --Omnipaedista (talk) 06:28, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

The source of Musipedia is used in both, Greece and Turkey. Also, this article is unreferenced (no sections -neither the section Tsifteteli in Turkey- supported by any source) so there must be a source for both sections, these edits are the most suitable and unless change it goes : Edit war -Kordax (talk) 06:36, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

No one is edit warring. I am still waiting for a reliable source for the purported connection between Tsifteteli and Cordax (the image caption is downright misleading). Indeed, if both sections remain unreferenced (and right now they both are since Musipedia and Chryssanthi Sahar Scharf's article are unreliable sources), they will both have to be removed. An additional problem of the "Greek section" is that its material (ancient Greek dancing) is misleading and irrelevant. --Omnipaedista (talk) 06:55, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Neither me but, how could be said something like that, when the source of Musipedia, endorsed and supported first by yourself, for the documentation of this article before? That make no sense and im afraind that is counted as a completion to the edit war, too.

About the Greek section there is no reference in origin of the dance. In first paragraph says: It is propably the ancient Greek Aristophanic dance, known as Cordax, and is based on the references that sections (both Greek and Turkish) supported...

--Kordax (talk) 07:05, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

1) If ancient origins can't be established, then the "ancient Greek section" is simply irrelevant. 2) Tertiary sources, such as Musipedia, are good when you want to support a trivial claim, such as: "tsifteteli is a rhythm and dance of Anatolia and the Balkans with a rhythmic pattern of 2/4"; this is common knowledge. But, when one makes a claim that is extraordinary (such as "Some [who?] argue that this is the ancient Greek Aristophanic dance"), then one has to find a scholarly source (that actually cites its own sources) to back it up. Unless, you find one supporting the fringe claims of the lede section of the article, there is no point discussing this any further. --Omnipaedista (talk) 07:30, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Any referenced source of each article should not be unilateral, unless it goes againt Wikipedia:Huggle of reliable sources and predisposes irredentist behavior and editing war, when there is not always a scholarly source for the documentation of the article, it isnt necessary to be, there is nothing else to tell any further --Kordax (talk) 07:43, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Name of Bellydance...

Sources are acceptable by consensus and indisputable,removing it denotes vandalism of Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources, (anyone could cite them) However, the name "tsifteteli", means by own the Greek name of bellydance.-79.166.157.19 (talk) 22:02, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Links to ancient Greece?

In every article about Greek culture or cultural element there is a sentence that hints or suggests that that particular element may have already existed in ancient Greece. While the rest of us Balkan countries are happy to aknowledge that most of our modern ethnic culture comes from or has been developed during the Ottoman Empire, Greeke culture has to be special, always making connections with the ancient world. It is not scientific and it promotes racism and ethnic alientation between the nations of the Balkans. 109.69.5.190 (talk) 21:14, 4 May 2015 (UTC) Ardi