Talk:École centrale de Lyon

Requested move

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Official French spelling. Euroflux (talk) 14:59, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

• Strong oppose See WP:AT and WP:CAPS. This is the English Wikipedia, so we use English capitalization conventions, so proper nouns such as individual schools should be capitalized as such. --BDD (talk) 23:48, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
• Comment This is the "English-language Wikipedia," which means it will eventually catch up, kicking and screaming, with recent/decent sources. However the capitalisation reforms haven't settled-in yet even in France: 10 septembre 2012 "L'École Centrale de Lyon souhaite la bienvenue aux 24 apprentis" In ictu oculi (talk) 06:16, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
• Strongly in favour of renaming with lower case letter

Initial capitals or all capitals should not be used for emphasis This a typical self emphasizing trend to put capital letters everywhere ; the reference given is an advertising text on the web site of the ECL. According to Wikipedia rules, you should not put capital letters for emphasis. In official texts, only the first word takes the capital letter (+ proper nouns) Arrêté du 2 mars 2001 modifiant les arrêtés du 13 mars 1997 relatifs aux conditions d'admission à l'Ecole centrale des arts et manufactures, à l'Ecole centrale de Lille, à l'Ecole centrale de Lyon et à l'Ecole centrale de Nantes.

Classement des écoles d'ingénieurs ; this is a newspaper and not an advertising paper ; all grandes écoles have only the first word with a capital letter.

This has nothing to do with the reform of spelling ; this official spelling has always existed.

I was surprised to see the Category:French aerospace engineers ; I expected to see "French Aerospace Engineers" because of the English habit to emphasize with capital letters. English Wikipedia chose NOT to over-emphasize with capital letters. Euroflux (talk) 12:58, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

This is less a Wikipedia issue and more an English language issue. École Centrale de Lyon is a proper noun. See Proper noun#In English for more on how proper nouns are capitalized in English. As the English-language Wikipedia, we use English capitalization conventions; emphasis has nothing to do with it, nor is this a "trend." Both of your cited uses are in French, which does not affect capitalization in the English Wikipedia. Show us reliable English-language sources which use the uncapitalized form and you may get somewhere. --BDD (talk) 15:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

"Ecole centrale de Lyon" is a French proper noun, not an English proper noun ! Look at fr:Ecole centrale de Lyon ; a proper noun is spelled in the same way in any language (with the same alphabet, of course) ! Be logical with yourself : the letter É does not even exist in English !!! Euroflux (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Nonsense. French Wikipedia follows French capitalization conventions as we follow English ones. See fr:Université du Pays basque/University of the Basque Country, fr:Institut de technologie de Karlsruhe/Karlsruhe Institute of Technology, fr:Centre universitaire Jean-François-Champollion/Jean-François Champollion University Center for Teaching and Research, fr:Université nationale de Taïwan/National Taiwan University, or fr:Université américaine de Beyrouth/American University of Beirut. What you're asking for is a radical departure from well-established Wikipedia policy. --BDD (talk) 16:14, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

The examples you gave are TRANSLATIONS into English of French names ; I am talking of non translated French names ! It has nothing to do. I am not talking of Central School of Lyon... Euroflux (talk) 16:44, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I see what you're saying now. It's still not a good reason to break with Wikipedia policy. Note that the Catalan, German, Polish, and Swedish Wikipediae use the same capitalization that we have. And while interwiki names aren't particularly good arguments in move discussions, the variety here (the Danish and Portuguese Wikipediae join the French in using the proposed capitalization) presents a clear message: Wikipediae use their own languages. So here, it's English. --BDD (talk) 17:03, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

• Comment I oppose the move, and Euroflux seemed to have gotten mixed up here – the reason of the French name being lowercased is because that is part of French-language grammar. English grammar is different than French grammar. To Euroflux: this RM is scoring way too many points for the local language. (sorry, but I just had to use that phrase that got Kauffner into debates on European train station pages) Hill Crest's WikiLaser! (BOOM!) 00:18, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
• Annoyed. – Is there no consistent Wikipedia policy for naming foreign universities? We have some that use WP:ENGLISH such as University of the Basque Country, Karlsruhe Institute of Technology and Jean-François Champollion University Center for Teaching and Research, and yet our article on this institution has to have a French title? Why is that? Is there nothing on this school in English-language sources? Why does this article need a French title? I looked up fr:Ecole centrale de Lyon in Google Chrome and Chrome helpfully translates the French article to English for me, including the title—Central School of Lyon, and insultingly to English readers, it red links! At least the English article does use English once: 1970: new name: Central School of Lyon and first class of over 100 engineering students. So yes, if we must use the French name for some reason, then of course use the common French name, and if that is lowercase—BTW, what is the proposed title anyway, Euroflux seems to have managed to avoid putting the proposed new name below the template, then use the French name with the lowercase letters like the French supposedly would (I don't know what their conventions are, I'm not French and last studied the language in third grade). Some hybrid of French and English is silly. But shouldn't this article be moved to Central School of Lyon ? The lead can be rewritten: The Central School of Lyon (French - École centrale de Lyon), founded in 1857, ... Wbm1058 (talk) 01:09, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Is there no consistent Wikipedia policy for naming foreign universities? oh, I see: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (schools). Too bad this can't be settled. – Wbm1058 (talk) 20:56, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Upper or lowercase

I just edited the article to make usage within the article consistent with the title which was "École centrale de Lyon" as I made my edits. I see that the most recent renaming was done by someone who has since been blocked for sockpupettry. If the consensus is that the name should return to "École Centrale de Lyon" with the capital C, I'd be happy to go back and change the usage in the article. Thank you. SchreiberBike talk 23:37, 25 October 2013 (UTC)