Talk:2008–2016 United States ammunition shortage

Update needed

Is this still ongoing as of 2010? None of the citations are from 2010. —Mrwojo (talk) 23:28, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

In addition to updating this article to reflect the current situation, irrelevant portions of this article need to be removed. Administration statements concerning Obama's position on guns and ammo are unnecessary and seem like an attempt to an Obama supporter to rebut the accepted causes of the ammunition storage. The comment from the Brady Campaign is even more irrelevant. Who cares what they think about Obama's current actions concerning gun control policy?

Your comment is confusing. As you suggest, the accepted cause of the ammunition shortage was people reacting to Obama's election. Do you suggest that Obama's public face on the gun topic is irrelevant? ...or that rebuttal is akin to blasphemy? See also:

The Ammo Shortage Continues
Why are manufacturers still unable to meet demand? May 15, 2010

Ammo shortage a concern for area

Obama Causes Ammo Shortage

President Barack Obama; Gun Dealer In Chief

Series of TV news stories on YouTube.

As of Sept 2011 that shortage still affects us. While .380 auto (perhaps the most scarce caliber of the shortage, with .40; second) has been back on the shelf for months (but just one brand at the local Fresno Walmart) the price is way up. For examples, at http://www.outdoormarksman.com/index.php?cPath=65_2_54 on April 25, 2010 (sold out, then recently unavailable) listed prices:

CCI Blazer 380 Auto 95gr FMJ, 50 rds $11.59 - $11.95
Remington 380 Auto 95gr FMJ, 50 rds $11.59 - $11.95
Speer 380 Auto 95gr TMJ, 50 rds $9.38
Ultramax Reload 380 Auto 95gr FMJ, 50 rds $9.95 - $10.36
--68.127.91.132 (talk) 19:52, 28 September 2011 (UTC)Doug Bashford

Title needs changing.

I changed the article from present tense to past tense.

The current title: "2008–2009 United States ammunition shortage" should also be updated since the shortage we now know includes most or all of 2010, as the article explains. I'm not experienced with that protocol.

While currently, (Sept 2011,) some effects of the shortage are still being felt, as defined in the article; it has been over for months: While choices in ammo variations are still reduced, and prices are often much higher, ammo for all the modern popular calibers are now available in most local retail stores.
--68.127.91.132 (talk) 10:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)Doug Bashford

A shortage ends when all the effects go away. It's 2013 and we have some police departments unable to issue ammunition to their officers. It's got stronger effects on the non-law enforcement civilian market. Whether or not the shortage temporarily eased or not it's certainly operative now and I've no information that it ever really ended. TMLutas (talk) 01:50, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

We need to add recent info from sandy hook to DHS buying 1.9b rounds and everything in between that has been causing this scare and shortage. (--May 2013) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.58.198 (talk) 09:28, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

While the gun grabbers' responses to Sandy Hook appear to be the big influence on this (although I would argue there's a general "you're on your own, got to take care of yourself" theme stretching from the government's pathetic domestic response to 9/11 all the way to "trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see", which we know can't go on forever), DHS purchases of ammo aren't that big. You have to look at the contract(s); the big ones I've looked at are all 5 year indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity, meaning the government isn't committing to more than minimal purchases, and the contract starts with only 1 year of certain sales, then can be renewed for up to 4 years after that.

In both the solicitations and more recent responses to the Congress on what they're buying and have in inventory, the numbers aren't anywhere near this high. As I recall, at one point I calculated they were around 3% of the US civilian market of 11-12 billion rounds per year, only around 3 billion of them rimfire.

Then again, just the screaming headlines of "DHS buying billions of rounds!" make their own contribution to the buying frenzy. Hga (talk) 15:57, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

"Significant" number of civilians post-Newtown?

Windchaser made a great addition to 2008–13 United States ammunition shortage (as in, now there's some content, let alone a serious amount!) and I touched it up here and there.

There's one detail I'm not sure about: he had it as "In the wake of the shooting, both a significant number of American citizens and politicians (including President Barack Obama) called for new restrictions on firearm magazine sizes and a ban on assault-type weapons." I think there wasn't a "significant" number of citizens calling for that, but I don't know. I do know on the other side that in half a year the NRA increased its membership by 25% to over 5 million. That's of course significant, but it can't be the only yardstick to measure the other side by.

But what do we have to measure in the first place? Gallup offers little as I read it, e.g. a 7% increase early January 2012 to 2013 in those "Very Dissatisfied" with the nation's gun laws, a bounce from around 22% going back to 2002. And perhaps similar for "more strict" laws, but nothing more specific. And it's the specifics that count, I think.

I also checked Rasmussen, but it would appear their longitudinal data is behind a paywall. Any other ideas? Hga (talk) 20:54, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Uncomfortable with that HuffPo/AP reference

One of its points is having trouble passing my smell test, especially with a total absence of sourcing from anyone who'd actually know what's going on, except for a paraphrase of an ATK spokesman doubting it. The US military's huge demand is for 5.56 NATO rounds (and maybe 7.62 NATO, used in machine guns, and anything bigger like it uses proportionately more smokeless powder, which might be a bottleneck), which BTW shouldn't be put in .223 chambers (the reverse is OK). Per Wikipedia the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant makes 1.4 billion rounds of ammo per year including 7.62 NATO, .50 BMG and 20 mm. It doesn't make 9 mm handgun ammo ... and pistol ammo it what's mostly in competition with domestic law enforcement. Civilian production of all types of rounds is now around 12-14 billion per year, and rimfire is ... 1-3 billion? Also, when the DoD woke up some time into the "Global War on Terror" I remember them buying a lot of 5.56 NATO from Israel Military Industries for domestic training, sending Lake City etc. domestic production abroad for the obvious political reasons.

Anyway, to my knowledge the limiting factors are possibly skilled workers, and definitely production machine time, particularly those making brass. And we can't discount primer and smokeless powder production as possible bottlenecks.

When we get to calibers, in handguns, the military only uses 9 mm ball/FMJ, which after the powers that be in NYC came to their senses isn't widely used by the police except for cheaper training. The military doesn't use .40 S&W at all....

I guess my bottom line is that I'm uncomfortable with very much on such a non-specialist source, which makes a bald assertion without sourcing it, even anonymously. We should see if we can find better ones, with sourcing from those actually in the industry. It's not a bad collection of reliable quotes for how this has been affecting domestic law enforcement ... but those are legion. Perhaps we could find a "Just the facts, ma'am" one? Hga (talk) 17:52, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

is that a weasel word?

Most people attributed the ammunition shortage to reaction of gun owners and other groups to the election of U.S. President Barack Obama — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.209.21 (talk) 23:19, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Page move requested

There are reports from reliable sources that the ammunition shortage is still ongoing. To prevent the page from needing to be moved frequently, I would propose to simply move the page to "2008 United States ammunition shortage", which would not need to be updated annually if the shortage was not resolved by 2017. Exarion1 (talk) 21:13, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

The obvious problem is that people will think the article is specifically about a shortage in 2008. In my opinion there isn't a way to future-proof the article. Something generic such as "List of Ammunition Shortages in the United States" - along the lines of List of recessions in the United States - might work, but it would be unbalanced because all the shortages are crammed into the late 2000s. Were there ammunition shortages in the 1940s? -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 21:25, 19 May 2017 (UTC)