Talk:Syrian–Turkish border clashes during the Syrian civil war

Structure

As this seems to be ongoing, perhaps "Attacks from Syria" and "Turkish response" could become subsections under new heading "Initial attacks", with a new heading created entitled "Ongoing exchanges" with dated subsections within. As it stands now, visitors must flip between two sections to put attack and response together. What do you think? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:10, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Everything should be in chronological order. Except for "reactions", which should be at the end.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:08, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm not entirely clear on this. What if there is a laundry list of reactions, one for each offending action? What happens when it becomes impossible to determine what is an action, and what is a reaction? Wouldn't visitors prefer dated sections, each saying what happened in terms of actions and reactions? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:15, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry I meant "International reaction", as in the opinions that foreign powers have regarding these events. That should be put in the end of the article. Any more events directly related to the clashes should be added to the ongoing exchanges section. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:29, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

It looks great now. Perfect. Many thanks. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:36, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

No problem. I think there's still some more things that can be done, but I agree. This looks pretty good. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:40, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Merger to Syrian Civil War

Do you think this should be moved as a sub-section to the Syrian Civil War? Is it notable enough - lobbing some shells back and forth - to warrant an article? Now if hostilities drastically increase, that would be another story ... HammerFilmFan (talk) 20:49, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to create a section and remove your indent. I hope that's okay. It's just a new issue unrelated to the previous section.

In response: No. Quite the opposite. Syrian Civil War is already too large, and cannot accommodate this article. Plus, this is distinct and well-sourced with references specifically about these clashes. Others may disagree. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:26, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

I don't see any real need to merge. The topic is pretty notable itself. The situation is still developing, we should first wait and see how this whole thing plays out. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree now that Turkey seized the Syrian plane containing military equipment flying in its airspace. This article may soon be needing a name change to something along the lines of conflict! HammerFilmFan (talk) 21:57, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

As has been stated, the Syrian Civil War article is way too large and there are a lot of efforts to trim it down, so we should not start merging articles. I'd also say that the military action between Syria and Turkey is notable (as are a lot of border skirmishes). Furthermore, this article will in all likelyhood expand in the future as tensions mount between Syria and Turkey.Spirit of Eagle (talk) 22:09, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in 2012 Syrian–Turkish border clashes

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of 2012 Syrian–Turkish border clashes's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "NYT Topic: Syria":

• From Syrian civil war: "Syria News". New York Times. Retrieved 2 August 2012.
• From Foreign involvement in the Syrian civil war: Mackey, Robert. "Syria News". New York Times. Retrieved 2 August 2012.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 03:39, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

 Done -Thanks AnomieBOT -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 04:04, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

RF-4 Phantom shoot down?

Instead of using the RF-4 shootdown as "background" (it seems irrelevant to the article as it is currently written) why not include it as its own incident in the border clashes? Goarmy06 (talk) 09:08, 11 October 2012 (UTC)Goarmy06 (talk) 09:06, 11 October 2012 (UTC)M

The paragraph concerning the jet shoot down clearly says that as a result of the incident, Turkish policies towards Syrian aggression completely changed. This is definitely important background info. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 14:27, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I understand it's important information, but the shootdown of the RF-4 didn't lead to Syria shelling Turkey, Turkish policy changes or not. I think it should be included as its own (and the initial) incident. It should absolutely be included, however I think "background information" would include any PRIOR Turkish or Syrian policies that led to the clashes, including the shootdown of a Turkish fighter. Goarmy06 (talk) 16:34, 15 October 2012 (UTC)Goarmy06

Article Title

Since this article speaks of an event which occurred in 2013, I think it would be appropriate to revise its name to "2012–2013 Syrian–Turkish border clashes," or something like that.--Philpill691 (talk) 17:17, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

The title should actually be expanded to include later events like the 2015 Suruç bombing, which are treated in the same context as earlier events by security and counterterrorism analysis, as well as by the Turkish government. But this also requires that someone write the actual material. Shrigley (talk) 08:00, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Border clashes are primarily fought between Turkey and Syrian rebels, not SAA

Why is the Belligerents section only mentioning two sides; Syrian Government and Turkey? The death toll on the Turkish side is primarily a result of fighting between Turkish and rebel forces. It seems some information in the Wiki article were conviniently left out. For instance, October 3rd, 2012, clashes near the border town of Akçakale were the result of rebel shelling on the Turkish town, which led to the death of five civillians. In fact, the Turkish newspaper "YURT" reported that the rebels shelled Akçakale with NATO made ammunition shells, which were apparently provided to them by the Turkish Government (story in Turkish: [1]). One of the biggest Germany media houses, ZDF, also reported fighting between Turkish security forces and the rebels (story in German: [2] & English/German: [3] & Croatian: [4]).

Yesterday it was reported, that the fighting between Turkish forces and rebel insurgents, at the Akçakale border crossing, resulted in at least one death (one policeman died and five were wounded (+ a number of wounded civilians) on the Turkish side and at least two rebels dead, after they opened fire on a Turkish security forces which denied them access across the border; NY Times [5], Al Jazeera [6], Reuters [7], [8]).

Today (3 May 2013), reports are spread that the rebels and Turkish forces fought in another border crossing, near Tal Abyad, which resulted in the death of at least three Turkish policeman and over a dozen insurgents. Ratipok (talk) 15:11, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

You can add this information with verified sources. Robert Peterson 753 (talk) 16:56, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Reyhanlı bombings

is there some proof that this event was connected with Syrian Civil War or Syrian-Turkish border clashes?--Vojvodae please be free to write :) 21:14, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit war casualties and result

Would like to say that this edit war has to stop. The casualties of the 2 pilots killed shouldn't be mentiont as that has nothing to do with the main border clashes. The shot down of aircrafts has already its own page. This page only inlcudes the border shelling wich ended when Turkey began to retaliate. Gala19000 (talk) 19:50, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Protection

{{Edit template-protection}} Robert Peterson 753 (talk) 06:09, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

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