Talk:2016 Nevada Senate election

Requested move 12 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Rough consensus to move. The arguments about precision have weight, but they are countered by arguments about consistency and aren't sufficient to outweigh the number of editors supporting this proposal. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 14:03, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

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• 2016 Nevada State Senate election → 2016 Nevada Senate election
• 2018 Nevada State Senate election → 2018 Nevada Senate election
• 2020 Nevada State Senate election → 2020 Nevada Senate election
• 2022 Nevada State Senate election → 2022 Nevada Senate election
• 2024 Nevada State Senate election → 2024 Nevada Senate election

– The legislature's official name is "Nevada Senate", not "Nevada State Senate". Articles for other states (e.g. Pennsylvania) do not have this inconsistency. Numberguy6 (talk) 04:32, 12 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 08:06, 19 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 16:17, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose While usually we would seek to match the article title with the legislature name, I think the proposed title is ambiguous, as readers would not necessarily recognise whether it was the state Senate or the national Senate. The state election website lists the State Senate election as such (e.g. here), presumably also to disambiguate it from the US Senate. Number 57 19:07, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

  Many other states just use "Senate" (e.g. Alabama, Illinois, Pennsylvania) and there is no issue with that. Elli (talk | contribs) 07:05, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

  I think there is a problem from an ambiguity perspective. Using just "Senate" fails WP:PRECISION ("The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects"). Number 57 18:25, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

  The title is not ambiguous and for anyone who might be confused we can add a hatnote (which we'd have to add either way, since the version with just "Senate" would still redirect here). Several other states only use "Senate" and I cannot recall seeing anyone complaining that such titles are ambiguous. Elli (talk | contribs) 06:37, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

  I think it's ambiguous. If someone said "Nevada Senate election" to me, I would not know which senate they were referring to. Number 57 12:45, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

  Sure, but that level of slight ambiguity does not require anything more than a hatnote, unless you think a title like 2016 Nevada Senate election should be a disambiguation page (which would be very silly, since that is the only correct title for this election per NCELECT). Elli (talk | contribs) 02:07, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

  I think it does require it to be in the title, per the WP:PRECISION quote above ("The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects", which "Nevada Senate election" does not). Number 57 10:45, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

  The proposed titles do meet WP:PRECISION though! WP:NCELECT is clear about how such elections should be titled, and the potential ambiguity is not significant enough to disregard that subject-specific guideline. Elli (talk | contribs) 00:19, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

  As stated repeatedly above, I do not believe it meets WP:PRECISION, because "Nevada Senate election" does not unambiguously distinguish elections to the Senate of Nevada and the Senate of the United States. I don't think I can be bothered to continue going round in circles, so I shall leave it to the closer to decide who has the stronger argument here. Number 57 23:34, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

• Strong support for consistency with Nevada Senate. Elli (talk | contribs) 07:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Note that the legislature website does use "Nevada State Senate", e.g. here. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 16:17, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Support; it's Nevada, not Nevada State BhamBoi (talk) 05:57, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Like Number 57, I think ambiguity/precision is a real problem here. See [1] [2] [3], using "Nevada Senate election" or "Nevada Senate race" in a page about the election for the federal senate; but also [4], using "Nevada Senate election" in a page about the state senate. "Nevada State Senate" in the context of "Nevada State Senate election" is reasonable natural disambiguation among reasonably common and official options. It is asserted above that "Nevada Senate" is the official name, but it's unclear so far if that's true, or whether there is a single official name. See Mellohi!'s comment. Or see the state constitution, which arguably is as official as can be, calling it simply the "Senate" (which we obviously couldn't do). Not that it necessarily matters what the official name is, anyway. As for other states, the status quo doesn't have a clear consistent pattern. For example, there is 2020 Wisconsin State Senate election vs. Wisconsin Senate, or 2020 Indiana State Senate election vs. Indiana Senate, or in the other direction, 2020 Pennsylvania Senate election vs. Pennsylvania State Senate. Adumbrativus (talk) 11:08, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

  The issue is consistency. If our article on the body is titled Nevada Senate, our articles on elections to the body should use that title. This is point three of WP:NCELECT. There is no need for disambiguation here at all unless you are suggesting that a page titled 2016 Nevada Senate election should be a disambiguation page between this and the U.S. Senate race, which would be absurd.

  Just because other states are currently inconsistent is not an argument for more inconsistency. Elli (talk | contribs) 06:40, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

  Whether the election for state senate is the primary topic of "20xx Nevada Senate election" is a serious question for discussion, not one to be dismissed out of hand as "absurd". I mentioned a couple sources using "Nevada Senate election" (or "Nevada Senate race") to mean the federal election, and they are far from being the only ones. Given evidence of real-world usage, as well as the baseline expectation that more readers read ([5]) and more sources cover the state's election for U.S. Senate, the election for state senate is not the primary topic. (If anything, it's the state's U.S. Senate election.) Adumbrativus (talk) 10:05, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

  People colloquially using an incorrect term for something in a context where it's not at all ambiguous what is being referred to does not make that thing the primary topic. Our article titles for elections are not based on what other people call the election, they're based on WP:NCELECT, because people refer to elections in all sorts of inconsistent ways. Is anyone actually being confused by this, to the extent that a hatnote isn't sufficient? I'm not convinced. Elli (talk | contribs) 18:47, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

  Ambiguity is one issue, and how to weigh WP:NCELECT with other policies is an entirely separate issue. The first issue – whether a term is ambiguous – is a descriptive, factual question. Neither on-wiki naming conventions nor editors' opinions about what's prescriptively correct have any bearing on that inquiry. Factual questions are answered by real-world usage and sources. I examined such evidence before assessing that there is significant ambiguity. On the second issue: In most cases, the NCELECT-recommended title creates no problem with precision or primary topic or any other policy. There is nothing to dispute then. But in a case where it does create an ambiguity problem, we shouldn't blindly follow the guideline; cases with more policy considerations naturally may come out differently from easy cases involving few considerations. Adumbrativus (talk) 12:25, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

  We use descriptive titles for elections, though! There is nothing else that "2016 Nevada Senate election" could possibly mean following the title format we use. We do not need to shy away from using an accurate title because on some rare occasion someone might be a bit confused for a second and have to click a link to get to the page they want. Elli (talk | contribs) 00:25, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Support per nom. Estar8806 (talk) 01:30, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Strong support per nom - Tbf69 🛈 🗩 18:46, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.