Talk:2017 World Rally Championship

Resolving the WRC Trophy issue

The biggest question since the start of the season "Shoud WRC Trophy have their own article or not?" is finally resolved. I've created the 2017 WRC Trophy page and I'll need your assist in tidying it. Ivaneurope (talk) 19:57, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

You have not created it, you merely reinstated it. And I don't see how it is a solution in any way. Moreover, we have found a solution a long time ago on WT:RALLY and there is clear consensus against having dedicated articles for every single edition of this trophy. Therefore I have reverted the recreation.Tvx1 20:06, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

I want to be removed from any discussions from the Talk pages Ivaneurope (talk) 20:37, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

There's no need to react like that. I just pointed out that we already had found a solution. And just that you know, creating an article is not an answer to the question whether it should exist in the first place. Also, editors aren't removed from talk page discussions. You decided yourself whether our not you reply to these discussions.Tvx1 23:48, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Three letter codes for standing tables

@Pelmeen10 — could you please check your facts before making changes? Although there is a rally in Germany, it is known as Rally Deutschland, so the three-letter code should be DEU. Case in point, the rally report is 2017 Rallye Deutschland, not "2017 Rally Germany". You need to go back and undo all of the edits you made. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 08:32, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

No. I dont't agree. The 3letter code is for the contry as each rally is held in different country. Otherwise, Rally di Sardegna would have "SAR" (other years), Tour de Corse "COR" (not the only WRC rally held in France - see France Alsace), Rally de Catalunya "CAT". And Wales Rally GB is "GBR" not "WAL" or "WGB". Why should the German rally be an exeption? Pelmeen10 (talk) 10:17, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Because Rallye Deutschland is only known as Rallye Deutschland. Rally Sardegna is actually "Rally d'Italia Sardegna"; the Tour de Corse is "Tour de Corse — Rallye de France" (while other events have been known as Rallye de France, there is only one on the calendar); and Wales Rally GB is actually Rally GB sponsored by the Welsh tourism board. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 20:59, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

You do have a point with Catalunya, though. I've changed ESP to CAT. 2017 Rally de España is in the wrong spot, though. I'll move it to 2017 Rally Catalunya later tonight. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 00:08, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Even though the name is Rallly Deutchland, it is still called Rally Germany ("Deutchland" = "Germany" in German language and in English it's more oftenly called Rally Germany). Btw, the Frech rally is called just "Tour de Corse", after 2008 it doesn't have Rallye de France in the end. If you look the official WRC page each rally is called by the country, while only rally GB is called Wales. I'd say wrc.com should be the main source. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 19:12, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Well, on this year's rally Catalunya logo, there is a small text with "Rally de España 2017" [1]. Pelmeen10 (talk) 20:51, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

WRC.com is a self-published source. The article needs third-party sources - sources written by someone separate to the sport. We go by the event names that the FIA and rally organisers use. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 23:28, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

It's not a self-published source, but a primary source. That's not the same thing. There's no problem with sourcing the official names of events from the official site from the sport.Tvx1 17:08, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Except for when they contradict the names used by the likes of the FIA. For instance, WRC.com refers to Rally GB as Wales—but it's not the Rally of Wales. It's the Rally of Great Britain sponsored by Wales. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 20:07, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

The thing I'm trying to explain to you, is that in this sport the rally name is not the most important thing, more important is the country the rally takes place in. To English speaking people "Deutchland" = Germany, "Rallye Deutschland" = Rally Germany. Even the calendar sources in this article point out only the countries [2] [3] (in this case, there is Great Britain, not Wales). What specific sources support your point of view? --Pelmeen10 (talk) 13:47, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

It's called WP:COMMONNAME—the most commonly-used name in third-party sources. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:34, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Let's say the official name of Finnish rally is "1000 Lakes Rally 2017" - what would be the 3 letter code for this rally? Pelmeen10 (talk) 13:47, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

It's not called the 1000 Lakes Rally, so that's not a question that needs answering. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:34, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

As you can see from the history (for example 1986 World Rally Championship), 1000 Lakes Rally was still "FIN". And Safari Rally was "KEN" etc. It has been a long tradition to use country codes, I see no reason to change it. The full rally name can be seen under calendar. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 13:00, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Then all of those should be changed. There should be a correlation between the calendar and the results matrix. We cannot go referring to it as "Rally Germany" in one place and "Rally Deutschland" in another. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 18:57, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Only this article should be changed. We are talking about 3-letter codes, not anything else. Rally name is not even important in that matter, just the country it takes place in. Maybe in other motosport events, it's different. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 14:41, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Don't make editing decisions because they're convenient. Make them because they're representative of the content. The event name is "Rally Deutschland", so the three-letter code should be DEU. Likewise, if the event is the "Safari Rally", the code should be SAF. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 01:45, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

You are talking nonsense. It has been referred as the country ("GER", "KEN", "FIN" etc) from the start. Suddenly, in 2017 (or maybe few years earlier), you made it "DEU", doens't make sense. You haven't discussed this change, but somehow managed to make me the fool who "suggests change" and made me explain why. We should leave it like it has been, unless there's a consensus to do it otherwise. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 07:53, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

The convention across the wider scope of WP:MOTOR is to use a three-letter code that is directly derived from the name of the event. Rallye Deutschland should be referred to as "DEU" because the event is known as Rallye Deutschland. Keeping the code as "GER" does not line up with the name of the event and we cannot change "Rallye Deutschland" to "Rally Germany" because it suits us. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 08:12, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

That's the thing I'm trying to explain to you. WRC is different from other motosports, because routes (or cities) change, rally names change, but the country stays. There's only 1 rally per country, and always when the new calendar is revealed, it refers to that specific country that it takes place in - nothing else, no name. For example, Wales Rally GB was once "RAC Rally" then it was just Rally GB; Rally Finland was once "1000 Lakes Rally". There no point to try to make 3 letter codes from each rally name. Just as we use a country flag, use that country code that goes with the flag. And even when the rally name is "Deutchland" it's as much known as Germany, even if you look the wikidata every language translates it to their local name. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 08:59, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

The three-letter code should be based on the name of the event. End of story. To refer to Rallye Deutschland as "GER" amounts to original research because the name of the rally is Rallye Deutschland and you are assigning it a different name that is unsupported by references. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 09:04, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

It's most definitely not original research when we know where the rally takes place in, where did that flag come from?? --Pelmeen10 (talk) 09:06, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

The rally is called "Rallye Deutschland" by the sport. All of the key parties use that name. Therefore, it is the name that we use. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 09:15, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

You are trying to change something that has been here for years. Referring to "it's convension of WP:MOTOR" is not good enough arguement for you. It has never been discussed in WRC... --Pelmeen10 (talk) 10:01, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

"We have always done it that way" is not an argument. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 10:05, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

You need to read everything what I have written in here, again. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 10:31, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

I have re-read everything you have written. And you are wrong. The established practice at WP:MOTOR is to use a three-letter code derived from the event name. WP:WRC falls within the scope of WP:MOTOR. If you continue to refer to an event by a three-letter code that does not directly reflect the name of the event, you have introduced original research into an article. I direct your attention to the following discussions from the WP:MOTOR archive: this one, this one and this one. I would also like to point out that the ISO 3166-1 is preferred for country codes to avoid confusion. For example, "IND" could refer to Indonesia or India; under ISO 3166-1, "IND" refers to India and "INA" to Indonesia. By observing the ISO 3166-1, we introduce consistency across Wikipedia and it opens up other possibilities. For example, if both Corsica and Alsace were on the calendar, we could use the French flag for Alsace and the Corsican flag for Corsica. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 02:25, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2018 World Rally Championship which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:46, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Recent changes

These changes by anon user has some errors: 1) private entries did not enter under those entrant names 2) car numbers were different in some cases, but now changed to 1 specific. Even though reducing the code is somewhat reasonable. --Pelmeen10 (talk) 06:35, 30 April 2018 (UTC)