Talk:2019 CUHK campus conflict

Proposed merge with List of November 2019 Hong Kong protests

At this stage, List of November 2019 Hong Kong protests can cover the incident more effectively. The long-term impacts of this siege are unclear right now. OceanHok (talk) 12:28, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

• I disagree. If you read the Chinese version, you will discover the conflict alone has raised many attention. If you think the details in these articles are not adequate, you should translate but not delete in the name of merging.Universehk (talk) 12:49, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

• Merge Chinese-wiki are not relevant to en-wiki policy. They create articles by day, which far not acceptable in en's WP:GNG. Matthew hk (talk) 14:50, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
• Merge Per Matthew hk and OceanHok's reason. Mariogoods (talk) 22:47, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
• Weak merge. I am not convinced at the moment from the subpar content. Most of the article is heavily puffed up through responses/reactions of the sort and doesn't even deal that much with the events of the conflict. --Cold Season (talk) 01:24, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
• I hope you will change your mind by considering the fact the incident alone (not as part of the protest) has drawn international wide attention. The content may not be perfect now, but the proposed merge will seriously harm the readability of List of November 2019 Hong Kong protests Universehk (talk) 03:11, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

You mean one paragraph inside a news article (edit: NYT, Guardian, etc) for way many stuff that happen in Hong Kong as part of the protests? It is not in-depth coverage. Matthew hk (talk) 11:49, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

See also WP:WIKIVOICE. Matthew hk (talk) 18:26, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Also, based on WP:NPOV, a stand-alone article to describe the event as a crime scene that probably both side are committing, is not that useful and WP:BLPCRIME, WP:V concerns. Matthew hk (talk) 18:37, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

• oppose The last week marked an escalation between protesters and HK Police, with universities becoming battlegrounds. In my opinion, the article should be revamped and reorganized to cover all the clashes/events happening in all the universities in HK, not just CUHK. The title could be renamed to November university clashes or another appropriate title. DoctorHell (talk) 16:37 18 November 2019 (UTC)

• @DoctorHell: - That is actually not a bad idea. I have a draft to cover what's happening during the 24th week and @Feminist: is doing great work over at the List of November 2019 Hong Kong protests, so I don't think it would be too difficult to merge content here and there. I see that there was also a separate article for the ongoing PolyU clash too. That confrontation is looking to be decisive for the protests, but we will have to wait and see. But having an article alone for the CUHK clash is WP:RECENTISM, because as you can see, as soon as the conflicts erupted in PolyU, the significance of the CUHK clashes kinda faded away already. OceanHok (talk) 11:13, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

• • It seems not a bad idea for me to put protests in universities campus into one single article (e.g. 2019 Conflicts at Hong Kong Universities Campus). If we only combined all protests in one single article, it seriously harm the readability. It sounds better to cover other unis such as CityU/HKU as well. Universehk (talk) 22:33, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

I actually think it would be okay for PolyU article to stay because that siege itself got sufficient international response and there are new police brutality allegations. So I would advise against a page documenting all of university conflicts. OceanHok (talk) 15:26, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

• Merge to User:OceanHok/sandbox/general strike (and promote that draft to mainspace once complete), because that article covers the events in more detail than List of November 2019 Hong Kong protests. I would not object to recreating this article in the future if the article is beefed up (approaching the zhwiki version in terms of detail). I would be surprised if the CUHK clashes won't have ongoing significance going forward due to health concerns, but even without ongoing coverage a WP:SIZESPLIT may be possible. feminist (talk) 06:21, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose per WP:N. According to what I see from the media aboard, and according to norm, it is absolutely a siege. As a result, it is not a pure protest, but a battle-like event. For long-term impact, it is obviously not a situation of a likely happened school gunshot incident, and it is long-term incident which doesn't cover only one day. As a result, I don't agree the point norm insist. KyleRGiggs (talk) 08:20, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose It is because this incident is a serious and historical humanitarian disaster in Hong Kong and the inhuman level is more serious than tha actions done by the Nazi Germany and Japan soldiers in WWII while both did not actively choose to attack the reporters , first-aid team and schools even they were attacking in the war. As a result, I completely disagree the suggestion of merging. Carsonbosco (talk) 08:48, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

I think the humanitarian crisis you are suggesting is the PolyU incident, which is different from this one. To be honest, the police have been attacking journalist and first aiders alike since June 12, so this is not really a reason to oppose the merge. In a way this battle is actually a small victory for protesters which directly triggered the tragedy that is the PolyU clash. For long-term impact of this CUHK clash, it is kinda difficult to see because protesters are more likely to return to their "be water" strategy and continued with things like Operation Dawn. OceanHok (talk) 15:26, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

• Nominator comment: The merge target will be changed to November 2019 Hong Kong strike. Pinging @KyleRGiggs, Carsonbosco, DoctorHell, and Universehk: OceanHok (talk) 11:30, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

This is an awful article can we just delete it?

1. Many assertions here are not cited. ie. the "agreements" made with police.

2. The article make it sound like the incident is entirely about police attacking students who are merely defending themselves. Seriously, go Google search CUHK Protest and see the results for yourself.

3. What exactly does Taiwan have to do with this? Sounds like someone is trying to do WP:OR

4. Land Ownership? Is this relevant at all? There is already a court decision on this very issue.

5. Local responses - a whole ton of OR and unsourced citations.

Why bother fixing this? Far easier to hit the delete button. Theres also articles already on the protest and November events in the protest. 192.0.235.66 (talk) 06:28, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

You have the right to contribute if you find it biased. Nevertheless, there are significant references in the article. Also, even if referencing are not adequate, but it doesn't mean the article is awful or has to be deleted. Universehk (talk) 09:30, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

• That part just skip ALL the actions done by the protesters (e.g. throwing petrol bombs, continued to throwing stuff onto the Tolo Highway). I added some of that and I found that most of the sources in that section are from some biased media (Apple Daily, and even Twitter and personal Facebook page).--【wopingzisoeng】💬📝 14:52, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

You have the right to add more sources. But you are also violating WP:NPOV by deleting some contents that is against your so-called "peaceful principle". Peaceful doesn't mean blindly hiding radical behaviour.Universehk (talk) 19:55, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Also, if the relevant Facebook link is from celebrities or well-known people, there is a point to be here. Universehk (talk) 20:01, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Fine, then just put all information in this article.--【wopingzisoeng】💬📝 06:53, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Oriental Daily News is pro-Beijing and a "biased media" as well. Why would you quote it? Also "CUHK riots", which is by this biased source, is WP:NOTNEUTRAL (WP:NPOV) and WP:UNDUE. 42.76.143.223 (talk) 12:10, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

I have edited the article for grammar, style and syntax, and due to point 2 above I have added a pov tag. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:07, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 30 August 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. —usernamekiran (talk) 04:26, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

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Chinese University of Hong Kong conflict → Siege of the Chinese University of Hong Kong – "Siege" is more commonly used by the English media to describe the event (e.g. Daring Escapes From a Violent Siege at a University and Campus under siege as Hong Kong police battle protesters), while "conflict" is not commonly used by the English media. D7CY689 (talk) 03:08, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

• Support: aligns with what RS has described OceanHok (talk) 05:20, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.