Talk:United States racial unrest (2020–2023)

Requested move 21 July 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. WP:BARTENDER. (closed by non-admin page mover) CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} 20:38, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

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2020–2023 United States racial unrest → United States racial unrest (2020–present) – The current title makes it seem like the protests have ended, when they haven’t really ended. WikipedianRevolutionary (talk) 15:02, 21 July 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Heart ^(talk) 02:16, 29 July 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 14:26, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

The nominator was blocked as a sockpuppet. S.L. 17:56, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I will say what I said in 2020, at some point, they will not be the same protests but a different set about the same issue, which has been an issue for 200 years. Slatersteven (talk) 15:03, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Protests before 2020 weren’t so big compared to those in 2023, and they haven’t ended officially. WikipedianRevolutionary (talk) 16:29, 21 July 2023 (UTC) Blocked sock. S.L. 17:56, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

• Support. Having dates at the beginning of an article is worse for search and indexing. Rreagan007 (talk) 16:02, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Support Parham wiki (talk) 20:32, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Partially support. I believe it would be better to have the dates be at the end, but I don't think it should say it's still happening in the present because it wasn't as big of a deal as it once was. Ulysses Grant Official (talk) 20:11, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

• Partially Support. I would agree if the unrest is ongoing, the title should say present. But the Nationwide unrest is a rare incident now a days, and this article is mainly about the George Floyd protests and other incidents at the time. In my opinion, I think the Nationwide protests ended a while ago when the Tyre Nichols protests happened. SpringField23402 (talk) 15:40, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Consensus to change disambiguation format. Further discussion needed to determine whether "2020–2023" or "2020–present" should be used. BilledMammal (talk) 14:26, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Support even the infobox says that its still ongoing Michael H (talk) 20:08, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Support, But. While I agree with the change of the Date, I think it should be "2020–Present United States racial unrest" instead. Qutlooker (talk) 03:56, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

For indexing and searching reasons, having the date at the beginning is not a good idea. WikipedianRevolutionary (talk) 06:31, 6 August 2023 (UTC) Blocked sock. S.L. 17:56, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Say that to the People who manage the Election Articles then. Just saying. Qutlooker (talk) 04:39, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Support - There is data to suggest that public interest/discussion of racial unrest / civil unrest more broadly in the United States is elevated for the 2020-2023 period and that elevation of interest has yet returned to baseline levels. This can be seen in several ways. First, Google Trends for 'Civil Disorder', 'Racial Unrest' and similar terms for both Search and News show the trend of activity and discussion. Second, hate crime statistics related to race in the United States, specifically against black Americans, have continued to spike and were 27% higher than in 2020. This shows a clear continuation of the underlying racial unrest, with 2020 as a starting point for the significant spike but 2023 not representing an end point. Third, since beginning monitoring in 2020, the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (and their collaboration with Princeton University) has continued to document significant numbers of ongoing events that are related to racial unrest and conflict well into the present day. Wispinn (talk) 11:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ended

This era of national unrest ended a long time ago..... 2 years at least, It's time to put that in the article. I think it's common sense to say it ended. Bzik2324 (talk) 19:41, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, there was very clearly a distinct era of unrest, c. 2020, that this article should cover. Not every racial justice protest that pops up occasionally merits a continued elongation of the article's timespan. Evaporation123 (talk) 06:34, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Fully agreed. There needs to be a serious discussion about this. We're almost halfway through 2024 and this article wasn't updated to justify the supposed "ongoing" status. Examples added in 2022 and 2023 were quite a stretch and represented local/statewide protests rather than part of a national movement like the 2020-2021 ones. To add insult to injury, discussion that caused this article to be kept as "ongoing" was initiated by a sockpuppet of a now-blocked user. The national unrest took place in 2020-2021 and the article needs to reflect that at once. DannyC55 (Talk) 02:47, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, it absurdly makes it sound like wildly violent mass riots have been going on non stop across the country for nearly the past 4 years since Floyd was killed. Bzik2324 (talk) 02:53, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

02l 24.178.51.30 (talk) 10:50, 11 May 2024 (UTC)]

We do not claim any "wildly violent mass riots" occurred. Slatersteven (talk) 10:54, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. The nationwide unrest ended a long time ago, and the events after that have been state wide. This article hasn't been touched since the end of the George Floyd protests and I think it should have been worked on since then. SpringField23402 (talk) 13:05, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Alright, so how do we do this? Bzik2324 (talk) 02:35, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

According to timelines in the article, the nationwide unrest ended sometime in mid-2022. We need permission if were going to change the date in the info box. SpringField23402 (talk) 21:53, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Permission from who? Evaporation123 (talk) 21:43, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

One of the original editors of this article. I don't know if they're still on here or not. But right now, we need research if we're going to fix this outdated article. SpringField23402 (talk) 22:24, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

I think the main thing right now is where to cut off the article. There was clearly a distinct era of unrest that kind of phased out by the end of summer 2020 if I recall correctly. And it may be difficult to find sources that provide clear start and end dates. Then again, just listing every occasional racial justice protest that pops up is stupid and we need to draw a line. And I can tell you for sure there is no way the unrest extended up until 2022 as a continuous thing. Evaporation123 (talk) 00:05, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

We need to explain all of this to Slatersteven, the one who won't let any of us editors to touch the date. Everytime they change it to an end date, he keeps reverting it back to present like he wants it to be ongoing while in reality it's not. SpringField23402 (talk) 03:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Is he an administrator? I don't feel like analysing the whole procedure for edit warring or whatever this is now, but I'm pretty sure bad behavior can be reported. Evaporation123 (talk) 04:03, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

User:Slatersteven does not make any mention of being an administrator in his talk page. Dimadick (talk) 05:20, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Read wp:or, we need a source saying they ended at a given date. Now if you want to discuss the idea of splitting this into United States racial unrest (2020) United States racial unrest (2021) United States racial unrest (2022 (etc) lets have it. Slatersteven (talk) 10:45, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

By the way, the last entry is Eddie Irizarry protests, September 2023. Slatersteven (talk) 10:47, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

But that was just in Philadelphia. This is supposed to be about nationwide unrest, not just in one state or city. SpringField23402 (talk) 15:55, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

So? the last mentioned demonstration was not in 2022, in fact we have 3 entries for 2023. Slatersteven (talk) 16:00, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

You're not making any sense. We mean unrest as in "civil disorder" not peaceful protests like the ones in 2023. A peaceful protest is not unrest, and you should know that. SpringField23402 (talk) 18:14, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

OK, the last entry we have was not in 2022, we have at least 3 entries that postdate that, better for you to understand? Slatersteven (talk) 08:26, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Support. It is clear on several metrics that demonstrations relevant to police brutality against African-Americans are no longer significant nor frequent enough to remain within the scope of this article. I further believe the lede paragraph is wildly misleading, which states these protests "have drawn continued attention and unrest" in the United States. According to the article itself, there has not been a major protest in nearly 8 months as of writing. Even then, those protests were generally localized to one city (Philadelphia) on one day. There is also very little ongoing media coverage.

Of course, there is not (and will never be) a single date in which the racial unrest can be said to have "ended". As others have said, tensions involving African-Americans have existed for hundreds of years, and is still ongoing. A more comprehensive question to consider is, "To what extent is any ongoing racial unrest in the US directly traceable to the murder of George Floyd and subsequent events?"

In my opinion, anything long after the decision in Minnesota v. Chauvin should not be considered part of this period. Currently, I think it would be most correct to remove any implications that the unrest is "ongoing" or "current", without specifying a particular end date or year. 2600:1700:FD0:E200:6486:CB10:B054:CBD5 (talk) 03:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

That is absolutely correct. We have to have a discussion on how we can update this article stating about what you said here. SpringField23402 (talk) 14:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Discus content, not users. Slatersteven (talk) 10:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Split proposal

As there seems to be a lot of disagrment as to when these ended shouso we split them off by year? Slatersteven (talk) 10:19, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Like the Daunte Wright protests, we should add the "Initial" and "Subsequent" events, or label it by saying "Nationwide" and "Statewide" SpringField23402 (talk) 15:37, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

This smackS of OR, it seems to be just having a separate article titled "United States racial unrest (year)" removes any need for any of that. What we can't do is start to split it down even further. Slatersteven (talk) 15:40, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Or we could just remove this article all together due to many divisions from editors. There are already articles of each of these protests. In fact, racial unrest has been around in the United States for over 60 years, since the MLK Jr. assassination. SpringField23402 (talk) 19:06, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

That needs an AFD, and I doubt it would succeed, but go ahead and try. As this seems to be getting no traction fine, it covers a whole period. Slatersteven (talk) 08:35, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Request for deletion

This article has created so many divisions from editors, and it hasn't gone anywhere since. There were multiple edit wars on whether the unrest ended or not. There are separate articles of each protest that occurred during the United States racial unrest between 2020 & 2023. In fact, Unrest against racism has been around in the U.S. since the 1960's. There is already a similar article called the "2020–2023 Minneapolis–Saint Paul racial unrest" which ended in May 2023 after the conviction of all 4 officers in connection to the murder of George Floyd. So due to divisions between Wiki editors and with the protests already having pages of their own, I'm officially requesting that this article should be deleted. SpringField23402 (talk) 12:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

You need to wp:afd] it. Slatersteven (talk) 13:31, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

The device I'm using doesn't have those features. SpringField23402 (talk) 18:14, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

What do you mean? as far as I know anyone can AFD an article. Slatersteven (talk) 12:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

It's not showing me the right tools on the mobile phone, and I don't have a computer. So I guess we're gonna have to discuss it right here. SpringField23402 (talk) 13:01, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

No, you can ask an admin to do it if you must. Slatersteven (talk) 13:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Or click on the link I provided, and follow those instructions. Slatersteven (talk) 13:03, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

You know what, I have an idea. Why don't we rename this article to "Racial justice protests in the United States (2020–present)" that way it references not only the unrest, but peaceful protests as well. Plus, it would make more sense. SpringField23402 (talk) 16:30, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

I believe it's hard to pinpoint exactly when the massive protests, the ones that were unmistakably inspired and ignited by George Floyd, "ended" because it takes into account a lot of subjective factors that are difficult to measure, such as media coverage, frequency and size of demonstrations, as well as public perception and how social media is reacting to it. The wave of protests in 2020-2021 were marked by extremely high and non-stop media coverage, endless online discourse and even for inspiring other racial justice protests abroad. I think the cutoff in this article should be the one present in the George Floyd protests article, specifically the conviction of Tou Thao, though one could argue that the whole movement was much more diminished already by 2022. --DannyC55 (Talk) 02:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)