Talk:2022–present United Kingdom railway strikes

Adding an article image

Hello, I was just wondering if we should consider adding an appropriate image to this article, and if so what this should be. Quickly searching on Wikimedia commons I found c:File:RMT_Union_members_striking_outside_Kings_Cross_station_in_June_2022.jpg and I uploaded c:File:RMT_Union_members_striking_outside_Network_Rail_property_near_Cambridge_Station_in_June_2022.jpg. These arguably do not portray well the strike action taken however, with only small scale pickets depicted in both. SoThisIsPeter (talk) 14:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Definitely agree we need a picture or two to enhance this article. This is Paul (talk) 20:41, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Went ahead and added my image. SoThisIsPeter (talk) 00:17, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Grticle title ==

I'm not sure whether the title should be 2022 United Kingdom national rail strike or 2022 United kingdom national rail strikes, or perhaps even 2022 United Kingdom national rail strike action. Does each strike day count as a separate strike or are they all collectively part of one strike? Any thoughts on this would be welcome, and feel free to do an article move if you think one of the other titles is better, and you're feeling bold. This is Paul (talk) 20:46, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Per other articles in Category:Rail transport strikes most use a singular "strike", even if it lasted a few days (those with "strikes" are list or multi-year articles). All of these strikes occuring now are connected (at least by timing). If similar strikes happen next year, then the approach of 2016–2019 United Kingdom rail strikes could be taken, made plural. In addition, that article omits "national", which is not exactly appropriate as this applies only to Great Britain's railway system (GB is a island excludes UK's NI), but more than England, and the strike is neither directly disputed to all companies branded as "National Rail" (R capped), so national in my opinion doesn't make sense. So 2022 United Kingdom rail strike would be the simplest change. Although per the category it (and other UK strikes) could be titled 2022 railway strike in the United Kingdom. I could be bold but you started a discussion so might as well discuss. DankJae 21:53, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Also 1919 United Kingdom railway strike and most in the category use "railway" over "rail" (aside the multi-year UK one) so should it also be changed to railway? DankJae 21:55, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

2022 United Kingdom railway strike works for me. This is Paul (talk) 23:28, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks :) DankJae 00:42, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Why isn't the article called 2022 Great Britain railway strike? The obvious counter that the rail strike happened in the UK, so it is perfectly accurate to call it a United Kingdom rail strike, makes no sense unless an England-only (or even Wales-only) railway strike would also be called 2022 United Kingdom railway strike? Can we please rename the article to make its title accurate? Kennethmac2000 (talk) 12:34, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Are you suggesting it (and likely similar articles) be renamed to 2022 Great Britain railway strike? In my previous response I simply disputed "United Kingdom" and "National" in the same title as it wasn't the entire United Kingdom (not NI), also to put inline with other similar articles. The current title merely suggests there was a 2022 strike (somewhere) in the United Kingdom. However the main article on railway's in the UK is split between a GB and Irish article, is it common for UK railway articles to be geographically categorised between GB and Ireland? If so there could be a basis for your rename. Would such rename also apply to 2016–2019 United Kingdom railway strikes and 1919 United Kingdom railway strike? (Maybe even National Railway strike of 1911 but I think thats a common name). I think the current title is fine, it is largely described as a UK strike. [1][2][3] DankJae 16:34, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I would add the Guardian also uses Great Britain,[4][5] but it is the only one I can find which uses GB, most news articles I can find describe it as UK or informally "Britain". Although happy to be disproven. – DankJae 16:38, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Most sources seem to describe it in UK rather than GB terms. Great Britain can be a confusing term because many people would assume it is interchangeable with UK, which of course it isn't as Great Britain refers to the mainland and UK also incorporates Northern Ireland. This is Paul (talk) 17:44, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Since putting numbers ahead of words in a title looks a little peculiar, what about renaming it: Great Britain railway strikes (2022-2023)?

Which Employment Act?

I've been trying to find out which Employment legislation this Sky News article refers to. A Google search suggests it seems to either be the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 or the Employment Rights Act 1996, both of which seem to have a Section 188 and deal with redundancy. Can anyone help? Cheers, This is Paul (talk) 17:48, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

This doesn't help, since the UK doesn't have a "Labour Relations Act". This is Paul (talk) 18:55, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Probably a short name used by news agencies than the long Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. DankJae 18:57, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Tbh I have a feeling news sites are also confused. Sky do use "Employment Act" which is closer to the latter name. However, this Guardian source and (a closely paraphrased railtech magazine source), and this politicshome source (Edit:Politicshome use "Trade Union and Labour Relations Act") (I think describing the same issue) state "Labour Relations Act" close to the former. Reading both section 188s, TULRCA is simply about employers consulting employee representatives, whereas ERA is about whether the Secretary of State fails to make a suitable payment to a employee who was entitled to a payment following the bankrupcy of their employer (this section 188 is based on section 182 which is on insolvency), at least thats what I got from them. Furthermore a lot of documents from Trade Unions discuss TULRCA [6] [7] (except one mention by GMB), so I think TULRCA is the relevant section 188 as it is about consultancies which is relevant to the Sky article. DankJae 18:56, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, that would make sense for it to be TULCRA. This is Paul (talk) 18:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Disputes in other sectors

I'm thinking it might be time to consider spinning this topic off into a Summer of Discontent article as it's slowly growing in length. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Would Summer of Discontent (which is currently a redirect to the section) be an appropriate title or would another title be better? I'll list a few ideas below. Let me know what you think. This is Paul (talk) 11:56, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I do think it now warrants its own article as it has grown in length more considerably than would have been expected at article creation, for example considering the barristers strike announced today among others. My opinion is that 2022 United Kingdom industrial disputes is the most appropriate and descriptive title for such an article - "Summer of Discontent" is a description that has only been used occasionally in the media to refer to the strikes, and has not seen widespread use as a description, so should simply redirect to this new article imo. SoThisIsPeter (talk) 15:02, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes I think 2022 United Kingdom industrial disputes is the best option. I'll make a start on it but can't do anything for a day or two. I'm away from this afternoon till Sunday evening and I'll be logging on through a mobile device so I don't want to do too much on that, but I'll probably do something Monday or Tuesday. This is Paul (talk) 11:00, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

• Summer of Discontent
• 2022 United Kingdom industrial disputes
• 2022 United Kingdom labour disputes
• 2022 industrial disputes in the United Kingdom
• 2022 labour disputes in the United Kingdom

Article title 2

With today's announcement of further strikes, it's looking like the industrial action will go over into 2023, which would necessitate changing the name of this article. Here are a couple of suggestions. Let me know what you think:

• 2022–23 United Kingdom railway strikes
• Early 2020s United Kingdom railway strikes

My only thought would be that the latter gives the article more scope in the event the strikes were to carry on into 2024, but I suppose it can always be moved again if that happens. This is Paul (talk) 20:00, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

2022–23 United Kingdom railway strikes, in line with 2016–2019 United Kingdom railway strikes (although technically that would mean 2022–2023 United Kingdom railway strikes? per MOS:DATERANGE, although it gives a partial exception for two consecutive years). So support a move to that when the first 2023 strike commences as they can be called off last minute. Better to avoid speculating too much about 2024 and whether these will last for most of the "early 2020s", lets stick to what is happening now and just move it when events change at a later date. Plus "early" can be quite misleading, 2020 and 2021 are also "early 2020s", better stick with the specific year(s) for now, in my opinion. Thanks DankJae 20:29, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

2022-2023 United Kingdom railway strikes. This would put in in line with 2016–2019 United Kingdom railway strikes, and this also makes sense since strike action is now formally scheduled to continue into 2023. With that in mind, I think that this page should be moved as soon as possible to my suggested name. In the event that the strikes in 2023 get cancelled though, we can revert to the previous name. Lawrence 979 (talk) 09:54, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Customer Services

Having searched Wikipedia for the "Reduction in the Number of Ticket Offices", I did not find any articles. As well as assisting people with issues of general concern, staff in ticket offices also help to reduce crime levels. Given this, might not the article have a section covering such concerns? Then again, are people unconcerned about the cut backs to Custom Services? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.69.169.113 (talk) 11:35, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Article title 3

With strikes not settled going into 2024 (including the tube strikes), I think its about time to change the name of the article to "2022-2024 United Kingdom Railway Strikes", a change which I strongly believe should go ahead as soon as possible should there be no objection. Let me know if there are any objections to this move: Lawrence 979 (talk) 21:27, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Did it myself the following day; I didn't see this convo until after. Yeah no contest here, it's still ongoing and probably will for a while yet.

Requested move 18 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is a consensus to move, however with different alternative titles which are mostly largely stylistic in comparison. Therefore per WP:BARTENDER, moved to the initial proposed title. – robertsky (talk) 12:42, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

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2022–2024 United Kingdom railway strikes → 2022–present United Kingdom railway strikes – Strikes are still ongoing. Current name could be misinterpreted as the strikes having ended in 2024, which does not appear to be the case. XtraJovial (talk • contribs) 18:59, 18 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 17:05, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

• 2022-onward United Kingdom railway strike may be a better term to use. Nightfury 22:26, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
• Support a move, but suggest United Kingdom railway strikes (2022–present) as an alternative. This is Paul (talk) 14:59, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
• Move to 2020s United Kingdom railway strikes rather than "2022–present" per MOS:DATED/MOS:TOPRESENT. Graham (talk) 04:17, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Pinging earlier participants: XtraJovial, Nightfury, This is Paul. Graham (talk) 04:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support either of the proposed options, its a fairly minor distinction. --ERAGON (talk) 11:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Possible move

I know there are a couple of smaller disputes still in progress, but now the national dispute is over I'm wondering if we should move this article. I was thinking of something like 2022–2024 United Kingdom railway strikes. Let me know what you think. This is Paul (talk) 21:26, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

It's nearly time, yes, but not quite. Wait until the disputes are fully settled. There are no deadlines in Wikipedia. 10mmsocket (talk) 08:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)