Talk:February 2023 Nablus incursion

Requested move 22 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 00:01, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

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2023 Nablus clashes → 2023 Nablus incursion:

• France 24 calls it a "raid" in the title and "the latest Israeli incursion" in the body of its article.

• Middle East Eye called it "a major Israeli incursion".
• WAFA also calls it an incursion.
• The Guardian does like France 24.

"Raid" has raised issues in the Jenin discussion (over at Talk:2023 Jenin incursion) earlier this year due to possible pro-Israel POV, and sources do refer to it as an incursion. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 13:25, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

The Bestagon, are you sure this needs a proposal? You and the other editor moved the page at around the same time, so maybe they didn't notice your move. — Nythar (💬-❄️) 13:30, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Nythar, I discussed the issue on the editor's talk page, and they do seem to have noticed, but claimed that sources do not use the term "incursion". The discussion can be found here. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 13:37, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support Newly created, the current title is WP:POINTy WP:POVPUSH by the article creator in view of Talk:2023 Jenin incursion#Requested move 1 February 2023, a recent discussion in a very similar set of circumstances at 2023 Jenin incursion. Creator was asked about this at their talk page but appears to prefer this discussion take place (again). Selfstudier (talk) 13:36, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
• Support proposal. As shown by the nominator, sources use the term and it maintains consistency. Nythar (💬-❄️) 13:40, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

  More sources use "clashes." Triggerhippie4 (talk) 13:50, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

  entered is a synonym for incursion

  Independent- Israeli troops on Wednesday entered a major Palestinian city in the occupied West Bank in a rare, daytime arrest operation

  Haaretz- Israeli army says it entered Nablus to arrest wanted militants Selfstudier (talk) 14:34, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

  Here's another "incursion" FT "The incursion into the city of Nablus is one of the bloodiest in recent years" Selfstudier (talk) 18:44, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. @The Bestagon: Middle East Eye calls it not only incursion, but clashes, as well.

Here's the sources using "clashes," and not "incursion": BBC, Reuters, The Times of Israel, Israel Hayom, Jerusalem Post, Al Jazeera, i24news. Triggerhippie4 (talk) 13:48, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Triggerhippie4: Wait a minute. Is this article about the incursion or the clash? Those are two separate things. The Al Jazeera article calls it both an incursion and a clash because of this. — Nythar (💬-❄️) 13:53, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

it's the same event. Triggerhippie4 (talk) 13:54, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Israeli forces first moved into the city of Nablus and then destroyed a building (I think) and killed two suspects. The clashes occurred afterwards (not sure how long it took). So the article is about both the incursion and the clash. Which title do we choose? — Nythar (💬-❄️) 13:58, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Anyone can pull up a bunch of sources and say, look, they use (raid, incursion, killings, clashes, arrest, operation, whatever). Triggerhippie would be saying "raid" if not for the recent discussion. NDESC is the operative thing here and we already decided it in that discussion. Selfstudier (talk) 14:05, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

What happened was an incursion which led to clashes, just like in Jenin. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 14:18, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Here's NYT - "Gun battle" "firefight" "major IDF operation" and

CNN "unusual daytime raid" "ensuing clashes" "fighting"

This is just reporters trying to report an event not calling the event something specific. Selfstudier (talk) 14:18, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Support: Per the Jenin consensus, and stating the obvious. The 'clashes' were a symptom of the incursion. Unsurprisingly, the attack provoked a reaction, big surprise! Clashes is a plainly insufficient descriptive term to sum up a heavily armed incursion into a primarily civilian area that results in the death of 9 people and the injury of 100+ others: more like incursion and/or massacre. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:16, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Support. The Israeli attack on Nablus is operationally identical to the earlier one on Jenin, where the various alternatives were assayed and incursion was decided on. Given the alteration under the new government of WB military procedures, we are going to get, in all probability, more of the same as the new policy is applied, and terminological switches from article to article are ridiculous. The clash, further, is one part of the operation, which, as sources become available, will be described in detail, as a military incursion.Nishidani (talk) 20:47, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

CNN doing exactly that, "A massive Israeli military incursion on Wednesday targeting three suspected militants.." Selfstudier (talk) 22:14, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

There'sd a lot of detail in the Barghouti article if someone cares to add background (including the new ultraright policy) from 2022 with a series of asssassinations of similar kind. She states they had refused to turn themselves in, meaning, as othger evidwence shows, that they had been alerted, ergo 'extrajudicial assassination'. I'm too busy (dealing with people targeted who did not resist).

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: changed to two dab disambiguation

AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 14:37, 14 May 2023 (UTC)