Talk:40–40 club

Doubles and homers

The discussion of 50-50 (HR/2B) belongs somewhere else. It's hardly related to 40-40 (HR/SB). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.147.139.184 (talk) 21:58, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Another rare 40-40 in baseball - 40 homers and 40 doubles. One of these days I am going to make a list of those seasons. Albert Belle had a 50-50 season sometime in the 1990's...

Ellsworth 21:20, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

I am pretty sure you are referring to Belle's historic 50 homeruns and 50 doubles season in 1995? Nick81aku 21:05, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's it. It was 52 homers and 50 doubles, actually. Ellsworth 23:59, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, to begin:

Willie Stargell, 1973.
Lou Gehrig, 1927, 1930 and 1934.
Babe Ruth, 1921 and 1923
Hank Greenberg, 1937 and 1940
Frank Thomas (baseball player), 2000

Also impressive is the list of players who didn't do it. Just a few:

Hank Aaron
Jimmie Foxx
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Mel Ott
Ted Williams
Hack Wilson
Jim Thome as of 2005

Here's a full list (40 doubles / 40 HR) - 32 times by 23 different players: Bagwell (1997), Belle (1995, 1998), Burks (1996), Delgado (2000), Gehrig (1927, 1930, 1934), J. Gonzalez (1998), Greenberg (1937, 1940), Green (1999), Helton (2000, 2001), Hidalgo (2000), Hornsby (1922), Jones (1999), Klein (1929, 1930), D. Lee (2005), Ortiz (2004, 2005), Pujols (2003, 2004), M. Ramirez (2004), Ruth (1921, 1923), Stargell (1973), Teixeira (2005), Thomas (2000), Trosky (1936), and Walker (1997). Dsreyn 18:07, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Interesting - did not know it had become that much more common in recent years. So from 1922-1940 it was done 11 times by 6 players, from 1941-1994 it was done once (by Willie), and from 1995-present it's been done 20 more times. Ellsworth 00:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Steroids

I might add that 3 of these 4 players have admitted to steroid use. Given the significance of the 40/40 club, it is noteworthy that only one can do it without steroids - that should be pointed out. (Although Bonds did it back with Pittsburgh.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.74.66.180 (talk) 14:49, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Obviously, looking at the recent ramp-up in both types of 40-40 accomplishments, there have been significant changes in the game over just the past 20 years, whether you ascribe it to steroids or whatever else. Ellsworth (talk) 02:58, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. Performance-enhancing drugs affect all baseball stats, but they can be discussed in articles specific to PED or relevant players. PED need not be mentioned in each and every of the dozens of articles that describe various stats. DwaynefromME (talk) 07:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Reverting probable vandalism

Two anonymous users changed Although Bonds only made the 40-40 club once, he has had five 30-30 seasons, his longevity... to Although Bonds only made the 40-40 club once, he has had five 30-30 seasons, his possible steroid usage... without providing citations. Without citations, this is vandalism. The spirit of WP:BLP applies. I reverted it. If the same or any other editor restores it with citations then it should stand.

possible error? isn't jay-z's 40/40 club in atlantic city, nj? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.101.36 (talk) 17:01, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Ballpark sizes

I just did a back of the envelope calculation of ballpark sizes for dead and living ballparks, and found only a 4 ft difference in average fence length, including living ballparks actually being 10 feet longer at their shortest point than dead ballparks. Dead ballparks were about 15 feet longer on average at their maximum point than living ballparks, and this includes outliers such as the Polo Grounds or Tiger Stadium which were enormous parks. Is it really accurate to say that stadiums are smaller than they used to be? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.38.15.21 (talk) 01:28, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Table formatting

Does anyone know how to increase the width of the column with the names of the members of the club so that the "Jr." in Acuña's name doesn't go to the next line? SS451 (talk) 23:28, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Dealing with 50-50

I imagine there are already enough articles about Ohtani and 50/50 that in theory there could be a separate 50/50 club article, but it seems better to head it off and create a 50/50 club section here and to put anything about his accomplishments (and anyone else who does it in the future...most likely Ohtani again) in that section. Is there any consensus among people who have contributed here? -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 00:58, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree. 50/50 club is redirect right now which is where it should be atm. A section on Ohtani's accomplishment can be a section here for now. Someone in SoCal Area (talk) 18:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Clubs have multiple people by definition, and Ohtani's 50–50 season is also a 40–40 season, so it makes sense to deal with the 50–50 season here. Dekimasuよ! 03:56, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Not only should the 50–50 club not have its own article, it shouldn't even have its own section as long as it has less than two members. Songwaters (talk) 23:29, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Comment: There are many reliable sources that refer to "50-50 club". I prefer to create a standalone article.

• CNN: first player to join 50-50 club, the inaugural member of the 50-50 club
• Yshoo! sports: creating MLB's 50-50 club, only one member of the 50-50 club
• CBS Sports: Who could join Shohei Ohtani in 50-50 club?, Shohei Ohtani is the founding member of baseball's 50-50 club, Ohtani remains the lone member of the 50-50 club
• MLB.com: Shohei Ohtani on creating the 50-50 club
• The Gurdian: Shohei Ohtani becomes first MLB player to enter 50-50 club
• NBC Los Angels: Shohei Ohtani becomes first MLB player to reach 50-50 club, Shohei Ohtani is the official founder of the 50-50 club

―― Phoenix7777 (talk)

Discussion in reliable sources is an indication that content may be notable for inclusion somewhere, but the best place for that content is not necessarily a separate article. (For what it's worth, the CBS Sports link above is an opinion piece, but I am sure there are other reliable sources.) Here, Ohtani's season must be covered in this article either way, and there is not much additional to be said about 50–50 beyond the fact that it is clearly difficult and Ohtani is the only player to have done it. Most of the things that can be said about its difficulty and rarity are already covered here. Separating things out is likely to result in a content fork. As an aside, 50-50 club has been a disambiguation page for almost two decades. The dab should really be at 50–50 club, but there is no evidence so far that this would be the primary topic; that might be considered WP:RECENTISM. Dekimasuよ! 11:39, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

I think that this is more than enough reliable sources to note that baseball writers do acknowledge that there is now a club called the 50-50 club with one member. (Thanks @Phoenix7777). The question is what would serve readers the best -- I think that so long as there is only one member, putting it here serves readers best since most of the significance of 50-50 comes in comparison to 40-40. (The same could've been said about 40-40 club when it only had one member, if Wikipedia had existed in 1988.) -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 23:32, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

30-30 Club link removed from "See Also"

Is there a reason the link to the 30-30 club was removed from the See Also list? Seems like it was removed when someone also removed the 'near miss' list from this page. Does removing that list from here merit removing the link to the actual page? Particularly when their justification for removing the list was that that page exists? 2601:644:9281:4427:A977:A70C:6035:30F5 (talk) 03:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

30–30 club is already linked higher up the page in the "early history" section. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout#"See also" section says "As a general rule, the "See also" section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body." If another link is necessary, it might be better to expand the article's introduction to include a reference to the older 30–30 club. Dekimasuよ! 04:01, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Trending graph

It would improve the data visualization of this article if anyone is capable of transcribing the trending graph as appeared on: Padilla, Ramon (2024-09-19). "Shohei Ohtani the first MLB player to hit 50 home runs and steal 50 bases". Archived from the original on 2024-09-20. It plotted the annual SB by all players with≥50 annual HR on one axis, and the annual HR by all players with ≥ 50 annual SB on another axis, which put Ohtani the only player right at the center, and the remaining several dozens of players at opposite quadrants. While this article describe three more players (Ronald Acuña Jr, Willie Mays, Alex Rodriguez) for comparison, the trend of players excelling in one quadrant is better conveyed visually on a graph by several dozens of dots. -- love.wh 11:33, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

2023 Rules Changes

Prior to the start of the 2023 season, the MLB made several rule changes that would prove to have a significant effect on the amount of successful stolen bases around the league. By adding a pitch clock, limiting pickoff attempts, and increasing the size of the bases, the amount of total stolen bases increased by over 40% from the year prior. While the feats completed by Acuna and Ohtani are still impressive, the addition of these rule changes should be noted when discussing their addition to the 40/40 club, similar to how the use of steroids were noted for Bonds, Canseco, and Rodriguez. 199.107.16.132 (talk) 16:54, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

• It can be added if there are reliable sources attributing more members in the 40/40 club to these rule changes. You're probably right, but wikipedia doesn't run on what you or I think is right, but on what others have published. -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 23:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
• You should add the the topic to Stolen base first. Then add the summary of it to this article with template Template:Main. I am a bit surprised that the topic is not already covered in Stolen base.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

  I just added it [1]. Anyone can feel free to expand on it, copy edit, or add sources. Someone in SoCal Area (talk) 15:26, 28 September 2024 (UTC)