Talk:4 Maccabees

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:4 Maccabees/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The external links are mostly out of date, and need to be corrected.

Last edited at 10:20, 19 May 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 06:06, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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I have just modified one external link on 4 Maccabees. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081007074329/http://ocp.acadiau.ca/index.html?4Macc to http://ocp.acadiau.ca/index.html?4Macc
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Georgian Orthodox canon

As of yesterday, the Wikipedia page said that the Georgian Orthodox Church accepted Slavonic 3 Esdras/Esdra/Ezra (AKA Vulgate 4 Esdras/Esdra/Ezra) and 4 Macc. as canonical in the chart. However, these 2 books are apparently apocryphal and noncanonical in the Georgian Church, based on several factors: Factor 1. In the Orthodox Church, the highest written authority on the lists of the books of the canon is the Ecumenical Councils. The Quintsext Council of Trullo, in its Second Canon, listed patristic and conciliar decisions on the lists of the books of the canon and the Trullo Council affirmed those lists. Some of Trullo's lists were longer than others. For example, the Trullo Council affirmed Canon 85 of the "Canons of the Holy Apostles," which in turn affirmed 1-3 Maccabees. But some other sources approved by Trullo's Second Canon did not affirm those three Maccabean books. In any case, none of the sources approved by Trullo approved 4 Maccabees. Nor do I believe that any of them approved Vulgate 4 Esdras/Ezra. P. Boumis gave a detailed analysis of the sources that Trullo's Council approved in his article here: http://www.ecclesia.gr/greek/press/theologia/material/2007_2_5_Boumis.pdf P. Boumis tried to interpret Trullo and its sources in an inclusive way, as if the sources affirmed by Trullo that failed to affirm 1-3 Macc. were not excluding 1-3 Macc.

Factor 2. Georgian Synods, bishops, and theologians are important sources on whether the Georgian Orthodox Church accepts 4 Maccabees or Vulgate 4 Esdras. However, I was not able to find any of those sources taking a position on that topic.

Factor 3. Historically, Physical hardcopies of Church Bibles over centuries occasionally included works that their printers considered apocryphal or clearly noncanonical, such as Josephus' works. Jerome considered Vulgate 4 Esdras to be apocryphal, but he still translated it into Latin. Then the Russian Church used the Vulgate as a key source for its own printed Bibles when the Russian Church began to print its Bibles. Thus, the Russian Church included 4 Esdras in its printed hardcopy Bibles under the title "3 Esdras" without considering it "canonical", but without marking it as noncanonical either. 4 Maccabees has a similar history in the Greek Church. The Greek Church used the Alexandrian Codex as its source for its printed Bibles. Thus, Greek printed Bibles included 4 Maccabees among its pages without ever officially declaring 4 Macc. a canonical book, but without marking it as "noncanonical" in its pages, either. This history explains why someone could mistakenly consider Slavonic 3 Esdras (Vulgate 4 Esdras) or 4 Macc. to be canonical when they were not.

Factor 4. if you look at Contemporary Georgian Church Bibles, they apparently tend to include 3 Esdras and 4 Macc. but mark them as "noncanonical" like current Greek and Russian Bibles do. In fact, the mid-20th century Russian synodal Bible marked all OT books outside of the "Protocanon" as noncanonical, and the Georgian Orthodox website below also marks both the Deuterocanon and 4 Macc. and Slavic 3 Esdras as "noncanonical" in Georgian: http://www.orthodoxy.ge/tserili/biblia/sarchevi.htm Rakovsky (talk) 04:51, 22 October 2021 (UTC)