Talk:AEG

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Thomas & Friends: All Engines Go which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 09:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Requested move: January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 13:12, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

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• AEG (disambiguation) → AEG
• AEG → AEG (German company)

I think that there's no primary topic for this intialism. Either Anschutz Entertainment Group or Thomas & Friends: All Engines Go are likely the primary topics because both have a high number of page views. per WP:NOPRIMARY and the German AEG is common on Google or Bing, although I want to base it on pageviews. An alternative for AEG would be AEG (Germany), AEG (electricity company)/(electric) or AEG AG.GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 23:42, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support. See my comments at Talk:Thomas & Friends: All Engines Go#Requested move 19 December 2023. Anschutz Entertainment Group is the likely primary topic, but WP:NOPRIMARY is a good compromise. 162 etc. (talk) 02:05, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  The German company would be the primary topic in Germany but not really worldwide. GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 17:32, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

• WikiNav for AEG indicates that in October '23, the hatnote received 133 clickstreams over an incoming traffic of 11k (~1%) and outgoing 2.8k (~5%). In turn, WikiNav for AEG (disambiguation) shows that these readers went to those articles, #1 62 to sports, but #2 was 32 of them who went back to AEG, and then 20 to the cartoon. If we look at the page views of the three listed items, and turn on the logarithmic scale, there's some historical correlation between Anschutz and views of the disambiguation page, but no obvious correlation between All Engines Go and views of the disambiguation page despite a huge amount of recent traffic. I'm not sure this is anywhere close to conclusive enough on its own to be a proper argument that the average English reader would be better served by full disambiguation. The idea that "you want to base it on pageviews" doesn't quite reassure me that we're applying an appropriate amount of rigor here. You should provide a more coherent discussion of usage and long-term significance for the change to be done, per WP:PTOPIC. (Oppose) --Joy (talk) 08:38, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure if we got a really coherent discussion, but I'm willing to strike my opposition and engage in this kind of an experiment, because clickstreams will help us figure out usage and we can reconsider later. --Joy (talk) 14:34, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. The German company is the very clear primary topic by long-term significance. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:32, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Comment - https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/massviews/?platform=all-access&agent=user&source=wikilinks&range=latest-20&sort=views&direction=1&view=list&target=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEG%20(disambiguation) Is this reliable? GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 15:57, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@GabrielPenn4223 it's probably reliable, but it's raw data. It doesn't tell us the entire picture as it relates to the specific issue of is the term AEG ambiguous for the average English reader and would they benefit more from a short-circuit to the German company or from being shown a list. For example, the more specific clickstream data linked above indicates that very few people use the term AEG to navigate to All Engines Go. Indeed, if you look at the article there there isn't even a single mention of the term "AEG" inside it. That makes it a hard sell for the idea that the average English reader associates the term AEG with that topic. It doesn't invalidate the raw data at all, but it puts it in context that isn't favorable to the argument. The hint is that you should probably focus on explaining how maybe the American company is referred to as AEG, and how the ratio of readers who recognize the American AEG is comparable to those that recognize the German AEG. --Joy (talk) 08:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

For example, we can see in the American company's article how they are the owner of a number of prominent arenas. But when one reads Crypto.com Arena or T-Mobile Arena there is not much about AEG per se there. Is the term AEG there a thing that is generally known by the average person, like the German company's brand is elsewhere? --Joy (talk) 11:17, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

I looked at "outcoming pageviews" sounds like the American company has 47.69, 24.62 for German, 15.38 for the cartoon. not sure if it works and if i search up the intalism on Google Images, you usually get the German company but some of it are the American and few is the cartoon. GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 17:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support per previous discussion. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  Look at the WMCLOUD page, both Anschutz and Thomas & Friends All Engines Go! have high views. making them likely primary topics but a good idea may be WP:NOPRIMARY. GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 19:06, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  7,787 for the German company, 8,202 for sports and 10,018 for the cartoon. GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 19:08, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nomination, 162 etc. and Crouch, Swale. There are 12 bulleted entries listed upon the AEG (disambiguation) page, with little indication that the historical renown of the German company has retained such a level as to overshadow the combined notability of the remaining 11 entries. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 21:47, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  You're correct, the German company would be the primary topic in Germany but not really worldwide. GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 00:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

  I should point out that I'm in the UK, not Germany, and I believe the German company is the clear primary topic by long-term significance. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:01, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

  I'm in North America, and had never heard of AEG the German company until these RMs came up. I'm very familiar, however, with the American entertainment conglomerate. Anecdotal to be sure, but I agree with the above sentiment that we need to consider a worldwide perspective. I'll also point out that historical age is not determinative, per WP:DPT. 162 etc. (talk) 18:22, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

  @Roman Spinner AEG#The AEG brand today seems to provide a fair bit of indication of that, and explicitly says it's not just historical. Can you explain the actual rationale for the way you feel, please? --Joy (talk) 11:13, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

  It's not just historical but can you explain a specific details for why you support? I support the idea somehow GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 17:56, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

  Joy and GabrielPenn4223, per AEG infobox — "Founded 1883 / Defunct 2 October 1996 (brand rights acquired by Electrolux)" — a company defunct for over 27 years belongs to history. As for the continuing brand rights / brand name, a google search under "defunct company names acquired by other users" provides an overview regarding general perception of such matters, but to the extent that AEG's brand rights — acquired in 2005, nine years after the original company dissolved — exist in 2024, those appear to be simply a postscript to the original company's history.

Granted, the original company lasted an impressive 113 years, was an important part of German industry and extended to other European countries — this entry appears in 30 other Wikipedias — but the acronym does not appear to have had much of an impact in the English-speaking world. I would not oppose the article's main title header being moved to the full name — Allgemeine Elektricitäts-Gesellschaft — as it appears in French Wikipedia or Norwegian Wikipedia, but do not support the acronym AEG being positioned as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC over 11 other entries on the AEG dab page in English Wikipedia where I feel the expectation is for a very high bar in primary topic selection. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

AEG AG would be the primary topic in Germany and Europe but not really here. 120.28.248.133 (talk) 19:20, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, as mentioned before, it's not about the brand rights per se, it's that they're still being used at aeg.com, it's still recognized in the UK, which should be part of the English-speaking world ;) The thing I'm wondering is whether the American AEG is likewise a household name in the US, or is this just a general concern about a short acronym being too ambiguous for comfort. --Joy (talk) 08:23, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Well I think WP:NOPRIMARY is a good idea. Austin is a DAB page and there's no primary topic worldwide although the car company would be the primary topic in the UK. GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 09:39, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

As a result of my above comment, I really think that there is either no primary topic or there could be likely primary topics. GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 09:39, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

And that car company is historical but the name is still in use by another. there was a RM in 2023 and it worked to move from Austin DAB to Austin. GabrielPenn4223 (talk) 09:41, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

post-move

https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=AEG doesn't render for February yet, but clickstream archive did update as did monthly page views, so we know there were 4681 incoming views, and these outgoing clickstreams:

clickstream-enwiki-2024-02.tsv:

• AEG AEG_(German_company) link 2295 (~49% / ~92.8%)
• AEG Anschutz_Entertainment_Group link 139 (~3% / ~5.6%)
• AEG Thomas_&_Friends:_All_Engines_Go link 29 (~0.6% / ~1.2%)
• AEG Airsoft_gun link 11 (~0.2% / ~0.4%)
• total: 2474

--Joy (talk) 20:58, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Because we also have a brand redirect in place, monthly page views comparison also shows 578 clicks on that (~12.35%), implying the first entry got 1717 clicks (~36.7%), and from the pattern it's clear that the traffic hasn't settled in yet. --Joy (talk) 11:59, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

In March, we had 4145 incoming views for AEG, and in turn we can observe:

clickstream-enwiki-2024-03.tsv:

• AEG AEG_(German_company) link 1968 (~47.5% / ~89.5%)

• 1222 clicks on first AEG link (~29.5% / ~55.6%)
• 746 clicks on the second AEG brand link (~18% / ~33.9%)

• AEG Anschutz_Entertainment_Group link 210 (~5% / ~9.6%)
• AEG Double_Eagle_II_Airport link 11
• AEG Airsoft_gun link 10
• total: 2199

--Joy (talk) 20:24, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

In April, with 3854 views, clickstream-enwiki-2024-04.tsv shows:

• AEG AEG_(German_company) other 1821 (~47.3% / ~88.1%)

• 1320 clicks on the first AEG link (~34.3% / ~63.9%)
• 501 clicks on the second AEG brand link (~13% / ~24.3%)

• AEG Anschutz_Entertainment_Group other 206 (~5.3% / ~10%)
• AEG Airsoft_gun other 16
• AEG Alderac_Entertainment_Group other 13
• AEG Thomas_&_Friends:_All_Engines_Go other 10
• total: 2066 to 5 identified destinations

--Joy (talk) 17:57, 10 May 2024 (UTC)