Talk:Military Academy of Agulhas Negras

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Military history: South America

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Requested move 14 July 2023

Latest comment: 1 year ago12 comments6 people in discussion

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Dane ^talk 17:58, 8 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

Academia Militar das Agulhas Negras → Military Academy of Agulhas Negras – Per WP:ENGLISHTITLE, On the English Wikipedia, article titles are written using the English language. Ckfasdf (talk) 15:48, 11 July 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). Steel1943 (talk) 05:28, 14 July 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Mdewman6 (talk) 21:31, 25 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion thread occurred at WP:RMTR. Steel1943 (talk) 05:28, 14 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

There's a massive recent spike in English-language ngrams for the non-English title. Later in that policy, there's the quote In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage., and WP:NCUE also supports this. The general standard is that if a non-English title is more commonly used, it should be the title of an article. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 05:07, 12 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Ckfasdf: Sorry, forgot the courtesy ping. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 05:11, 12 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Skarmory: It seems "Military Academy of Agulhas Negras" is not the most common English translation, but it's "Agulhas Negras Military Academy". And based on English-language ngrams the trend is somewhat similar to the Non-English title. If we look up further on books that uses non-English title, most of the time the non-English name is mentioned on either Abbreviation section or Reference section of those books. So, I am not entirely convinced that the non-English name is the most common name used in English language. Ckfasdf (talk) 06:58, 12 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Ckfasdf: That's not enough to convince me this is uncontroversial, and that it shouldn't go through a full requested move. (I'm not necessarily opposed to the move as of now; I'd probably want to do some more digging before figuring out where I stand.) Skarmory (talk • contribs) 07:58, 12 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Ckfasdf and Skarmory: Ping participants. Steel1943 (talk) 05:28, 14 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

Move per WP:ENGLISHTITLE, most of my argument already mentioned above, I only want to re-state that if we look up further on books that uses non-English title, most of the time the non-English name is mentioned on either Abbreviation section or Reference section of those books. Hence, not the actual usage of the terms on those book. So, I am not entirely convinced that the non-English name is the most common name used in English language. I believe this is one of Google Ngram Viewer limitation as it counts every instance that term used regardless it's position in the book. Ckfasdf (talk) 07:28, 14 July 2023 (UTC)Reply
Slight support a move: I think the names are close; it's hard to sift through the Portuguese results, so I don't have a great grasp on the actual rate of usage for these names. English-language Google Scholar pulls up 167 results for the Portuguese form (once filtering out results for an author whose bio includes the Portuguese name), 88 for Military Academy of Agulhas Negras, and 79 for Agulhas Negras Military Academy. There is an English-language tweet by the Government of Brazil using Military Academy of Agulhas Negras. I don't really have a strong opinion at this point – it seems like translating the name in some way happens at at least near the rate as using the straight Portuguese name, so that's why I'm supporting, but I wouldn't complain if this was kept at the current title. As for which English translation to use, I have no preference. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 05:12, 18 July 2023 (UTC)Reply
Oppose. Can't see any evidence that the English translation is commonly used. WP:UE does not demand that we translate everything into English. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:05, 19 July 2023 (UTC)Reply
Support. per WP:USEENGLISH. The institution is not sufficiently well known to be recognizable by its Portuguese name alone. Walrasiad (talk) 04:32, 26 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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