Talk:Adler (cars and motorcycle)

Fair use rationale for Image:Adler 1937 Competition Coupe.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:09, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

DYK

Why is this on DYK? Nothing much has been added.--Grahame (talk) 00:34, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

External links modified

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Did the Adler form the basis of the Ariel Arrow?

The article currently states: "As part of the Allies war reparations, Adler motorcycle designs had been taken by BSA in Britain and later used by the British company Ariel to produce their 'Arrow' and 'Leader' models." An engineering colleague, Bill Murray, who worked at BSA-Triumph (which owned Ariel), says that this claim is completely incorrect. Details to follow! Arrivisto (talk) 15:30, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

This content is original research added in 2006 when they could write anything at all without checks, by an editor absent since 2012, 'cept for a flurry of activity August 2017. The same content was added to Ariel (vehicle) (including the same for BSA Bantam/DKW) and to Ariel Leader in 2010. The latter was removed by an Australian IP in 2013 and you can see the edit summary.

I would advocate extreme circumspection when citing from Sheldon's Emu - this I strongly suspect to be a private website owned by an individual named Russell White in the Byron Bay area of Australia, an archetypal example of what Dennis Bratland regularly refers to as a 'scraper site', copying content then presenting it as his own with a copyright footer notice, and may also be what is known as clickbait. The clandestine 'contact us' page includes a consent where users agree to allow publication of what they submit. It's more than possible the page you cited has come from this unreliable Wikipedia content, and by citing it has become WP:CIRCULAR.

I checked in the house with only brief details in a 1960 hard book, calling them "Monark" after 1958. The bore and stroke are the same for Adler 250 and Ariel, and both are inclined two stroke twins. There is very little at German Wiki except for a table, but quite a few images at google. I would delete the prose as unreliable from both Adler and Ariel, I can't forsee any objections.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 04:43, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

• As a post-script, I would recommend avoidance of any recent and earlier post-Wikipedia websites when seeking to verify historical content, as often content-source is undisclosed and amateur-content is encouraged (self-submitted, but also including where regular contributors interview owners of old machines to create articles), unless they have established archival content and are long-acknowledged industry-experts. Included are Carole Nash and Bennetts (the Honda CBX6/TT Marshals' bikes info that you correctly introduced 21 Jan 2015 and later badly-cited with the wrong year (presumably after a keyword-search) by virtue of wrong website content is a good example. How did I know? I read it at the time, and have been sitting on it. I know, I was there in 1978, but I have been unable to prove it - yet - but as you will conclude, it's still on my list. This is an example of why Wikipedia will never be considered as a reliable source, and an example of Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth.

  This website (as worshipped by some editors being easily keyword-searchable) self-proclaims their own virtues. Equally, very-recent expensive, glossy books are big business. If there was any 'war reparation' aspect, it should have been memorialised in historic sources including those from government. Lastly, I have been working on Ace/Thuxton 'bars for you (and myself), having {{citation needed}} it to remind me, later unhelpfully removed in entirety - I guess the deleting editor's favorite (!) websites didn't provide the answer after much dedicated searching to keep the content, I hope . I knew I had 1964 in the house, but was staggered to later prove it back to 1962. In anticipation of more warring, I'll put the dated pages up to Flickr - I can cite them as I have hard-copy, but no-one else could from Flickr, being {{Copyvio link}}.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:03, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

I have amended the text (unfortunately without citation, as one cannot scientifically "prove a negative). Arrivisto (talk) 13:44, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose merging Adlerwerke vorm. Heinrich Kleyer into Adler (cars and motorcycle). These are the same two articles; both companies are the one founded by Heinrich Kleyer in 1899/1900. The first article is a stub created in 2004, which is how it avoided notice I suppose. The second is connected to the German language wiki, where it has the title of the stub (Adlerwerke). Knightoften (talk) 00:04, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 16:21, 15 October 2023 (UTC)