Talk:Airedale Terrier

Photos

Need better photos. There is one in this foreign-language wiki but I can't read the language & so don't know if it's a valid license. Elf | Talk 20:20, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• What do you want photos of?

• • This is an old request (Aug 2004); no longer applies. Photos are good. Thanks. Elf | Talk 19:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Rather than a photo, unless you want to display the change in the Airedale terrier from its origins to its present look, what would be of more help would be a graphic of the breed standard, which probably could be obtained from one of the breed clubs(talk) 00:14, 56 September 28, 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.49.93.6 (talk)

Wikipedia articles do not promote breed standards for dogs, as this would be a violation of our neutrality. Standards are often conflicting internationally, and making the value judgment that a dog that meets the standard is better is a distinct POV. VanTucky ^Talk 19:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE REMOVE THE PICTURE OF THE AIREDALE THAT HAS A RETINA PROBLEM. - ALTHOUGH HE IS A VERY HANDSOME EXAMPLE OF THE BREED, THE PICTURE IS SADENING AND DISTURBING. AS A LOVER OF THE BREED, THAT IS VERY DEPRESSING, AND SINCE PEOPLE USE THIS WIKI LISTING TO LOOK UP THE DOG AS THEY CONSIDER THE BREED, IT DOES THE BREED A GREAT INJUSTICE TO UTILIZE THAT PIC AS A PART OF ANY REFERENCING ENCYCLOPEDIC EXAMPLE.

Move requested: Capitalization of dog breed names

From Wikipedia:Requested moves:

• Talk:Airedale Terrier - Airedale Terrier → Airedale terrier, and likewise for the 42 other articles in Category:Terriers. I don't think terrier is a proper noun in English, so it should properly be lowercased to follow Wikipedia convention. --Quuxplusone 7 July 2005 22:42 (UTC)

  Nope, breed names are proper nouns & std per dog breeds project among others...see Talk:Airedale Terrier for details. Elf | Talk 8 July 2005 06:02 (UTC)

The most popular name for an male airedale is Dale and for a female it is Libby

Result: Voting closed (1 for, 3 oppose); no move to be done. Elf | Talk 01:01, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Votes and discussions:

Can someone please explain why this article, and every single other article on terrier breeds, have capitalized "terrier"? As far as I know, terrier is not a proper noun in English, and in fact it's not capitalized in most of the articles' texts. I would like to see all the "Foo Terrier" articles moved to "Foo terrier," in keeping with Wikipedia conventions for article titles. --Quuxplusone 7 July 2005 22:39 (UTC)

• Oppose. Like Washington Monument, Foo Terrier is a proper noun, even though monument and terrier are not. Google on over to dog breeds terrier and you will see that terrier is consistently capitalized when naming a specific breed. Dragons flight July 7, 2005 23:43 (UTC)

• Oppose. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds various discussions & archives and List of dog breeds--decided quite a long time ago that names of breeds are proper nouns (most books, breed stds, kennel clubs, etc. also treat them that way) and that's the way it's done all thru wikipedia articles for breed names. If the breed name isn't capitalized in an article, it's an oversight. Of course "terrier" by itself, as "hound", "dog", "spaniel", etc. by itself, is not capitalized, as it's not part of a proper breed name. Elf | Talk 8 July 2005 05:56 (UTC)

  Oh, yeah, so if you want to propose a different strategy for capitalization of dog breeds, the place to bring it up is at the dog breeds project, not here. And IF people were to agree to change for all dog breeds (which I think is unlikely), be prepared to make many thousands of edits throughout Wikipedia. :-) Elf | Talk 8 July 2005 06:15 (UTC)

• Oppose I couldn't find any relevant general discussion, but all-caps seems to be the standard at the Wikiproject and in titles of articles in Category:Dog breeds. Note that although the dog breeders' associations support this convention, in general writing I doubt that most authors would write this way (see my reference to the style guides below). It may make sense to propose changing the convention (updating a thousand articles is no obstacle, we have unlimited time and volunteers), but for now let's remain consistent. —Michael Z. 2005-07-12 19:52 Z

• OK, I went digging and here's one discussion anyway; here's another brief note. Elf | Talk 21:33, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Discussion

Is it correct to capitalize the breed ("the Poodle is an intelligent animal") but not an individual of the breed ("the poodle chased the wolf")? —Michael Z. 2005-07-8 06:14 Z

No, because "Poodle" is a breed name. Unlike "terrier", which is a type of dog, there is no "poodle" type--it's only a breed name. Hence, "the Poodle chased the wolf." Elf | Talk 8 July 2005 06:18 (UTC)

Hm; that still looks odd to me, and both the Guardian and the Times disagree (but these are their individual policies; see [Y/y]orkshire terrier), although they would write French poodle. —Michael Z. 2005-07-12 19:52 Z

• Guardian: dogs lc: alsatian, doberman, rottweiler, yorkshire terrier; but Irish setter, old English sheepdog. [1]
• Times: dogs l/c with most breeds, such as alsatian, borzoi, labrador, rottweiler, though there are obvious exceptions such as West Highland terrier, Yorkshire terrier, Jack Russell etc. [2]

Courage of Airedales

I'm given to understand from the works of John Hunter, (author and big game hunter in the early part of the last century), and others, that the airedales are the only dogs that will willingly close with a lion, as opposed to just flushing one from cover or holding one at bay. Though this proves to be universely fatal for the courageous dog in question. I've also read of two other fairly believable accounts of this happening. BigDon 21:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

That will need citing. "believability" is not an issue, just make sure you have a source that can sand scrutiny. The Phantom N 02:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

There are a variety of accounts of the courage of ADTs. It appears to have been bred in deliberately, to the point where they may well die rather than stop fighting. I do however question that statement in the article about a single ADT killing a bear. I can believe they would make the attempt, but would expect the bear to win a one-on-one fight every time. A bear can tolerate a great deal of damage and just get mad. If it struck the dog a single time I would expect the dog to be instantly killed or crippled. Ken McE 23:40, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, remember that the sole test for inclusion is verifiability in reliable, published sources. VanTucky ^(talk) 00:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Having had an Airedale for fifteen years, and being familiar with others of the breed, I can testify that the Airedale will not back down from an altercation, no matter what the size of the opponent (this is a general statement, but there are so many incidents that verify the trait that it has been generally accepted as part of the descrition of the breed. My dog has confronted both bull terriers and dobermann pinschers (the Doce was atleast 4 inches taller at the shoulder and many pounds heavier), and in both cases, the Airedale never hesitated to show dominance, and refused to back down from a challenge. The Airedale even challenged horses and cattle, as if he could not identify the size disadvantage. So attacking a lion or a bear, is not out of the realm of plausability, although I would not agree that the Airedale is the only breed to do so. And in fact, most lion hunts, specifically mountain lions/cougars (North America) entailled an Airedale or tow, along with hounds to track and keep the cat at bay. One of the key traits of the Airedale that makes him likely to keep on fighting, even if injured, it the Airedales' tolerance to pain. It is a trait that has caused many worries for owners. Despite injuries, an Airedale will not disclose pain, so an owner will rarely know if the dog is hurting. again, by personal experience: when I pulled my Airedale away from another dog (both dogs had their teeth into the other dogs neck, although it appeared that the other dog had a relatively weak grip, while my Airedale had much of the other dog's neck between his jaws), I walked my Airedale to a corner of the park, away from his adversary - looking back, the other dog was lying on the ground whimpering and licking his wounds - while my Airedale gave a good shake as if to state, "okay, that was fun, now what can we do for some more fun?". Knowing the Airedale's thick skin, I stopped to do a thorough check of my dog - everything seemed fine, until I ran my fingers between the fur around his neck - it was soaked in blood, and on furthe examination, I found gaping holes in his skin, but none of this seemed to affect the Airedale - he was totally oblivious to the wound. (talk) 14:45, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

My first Airedale was badass, killed lots of animals and would not take any foolishness from other dogs. Didn't really care for them, would ignore them really but if they messed with her they were done like dinner. I had her for 15 years, from ages 6-21. However, my new Airedale does not like dogs either but just tries to get away from them when bothered. You see, the breeders just let fully grown dogs (not Airedales) abuse the puppies and I even saw one throw a puppy about 10 feet. It is just my opinion but that is why my new Airedale is like that. In regards to animals and pretty much everything else she is just the same, killing anything she can catch. So it is possible for an Airedale to have a kind of post traumatic stress type fear of other dogs. However, she has never really been faced with a Dog that could really hurt her (I am afraid that she is afraid and will kill some poor dog, imagine an frightened Airedale fighting!) and quite frankly she is stronger and has much nastier teeth than my last Airedale. In fact, I worked in an animal hospital for 3 years and have never seen such sharp, large teeth. The pain threshold thing is absolutely true, she plays chase (not fetch really) with a full size football and I can throw a good 65-70 yards. Sometimes she gets the ball full speed right in the nose and has no reaction to speak of, and that, my friends is pretty crazy.

jvman 01:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

According to a character on a TV episode I just watched, an Airdale terrier was knighted by the King of England. Obviously, a TV episode is not a reliable source, but maybe someone else knows the truth (if any) behind the story. —MJBurrage^(T•C) 20:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Advertisement.

I am tempted to put the advert tag here. The article is not written in an entirely detached manner and it tends toward anthropomorphism. It actually says that this breed has a sense of humor.--Counsel 23:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I will take a closer look at the article. The breed may not have a sense of humor, but they certainly can act like fools. Michaelbusch 00:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I've done a bit of clean-up. The article still needs work. Michaelbusch 01:38, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

They have something that is very like a sense of humor. Perhaps it is a sense of mischief?Ken McE 23:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Leaving aside the question of whether or not dogs have a sense of humour (some do in my opinion but that's by the way) that paragraph needs a good sorting out or deletion. We all know our favourite dog breed is the best and all the others are just mutts but the paragraph is just repeating what has already been said in a gushing manner that grates with the rest of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.210.55 (talk) 22:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

This is all too common with dog breed articles, unfortunately, but I've cleaned this one up. – anna 22:51, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Oorang Story Bryan Cummins Bryan Cummins.jpg

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BetacommandBot 06:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Eyes

Under "Eyes" it says

• Some Airedales do suffer from eye diseases, such as congenital retina condition. This is Nigel, a young Airedale, suffering from congenital retina condition, and totally blind by the age of six years.

This is followed by a ref to http://mojoairedale.blogspot.com. The reffed page does not contain the word "retina" and the one occurrence of "eye" refers to humans. The picture shows a dog with white irises. IANA veterinarian or an opthamologist, but it looks like cataracts to me. I suppose it's possible for a retinal condition to make the retina so reflective that the eyes look white, but it seems unlikely, and I have never heard of such.  Randall Bart   Talk  20:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I've fixed the article somewhat - that isn't a suitable reference. The picture here lists it as a degenerative retinal condition and what you are seeing here is indeed the retina - a dog's pupils usually fill almost the entire exposed eye. Michaelbusch (talk) 20:30, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Humor.. what?

The Airedale is a dog with a great sense of humor. For those who can laugh along with their Airedale, the dog can provide a unique and entertaining company. Need I say more? o_O

Have you ever spent any time with an Airedale, with any dog? The statement you find so odd and possibly laughable is a factual statement. I have been around many dogs and I can't remember an exception. Other dogs often have a sense of humor also but you can count on it in an AT. In fact, despite all the testimonials, also factual, to the AT's courage and fighting spirit given above, my friend's dog Heather's reaction to a Jack Russell threatening her through a fence was to look at her master and I and, I swear, laugh. 65.79.173.135 (talk) 17:48, 1 December 2008 (UTC)Will in New Haven65.79.173.135 (talk) 17:48, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Have you ever have AT? If not, You are - with all respect - talking about the thing totally unnown to You. It's NOT about humor itself - it's about AT's sense of humor. You need a brain and the way to live with it - or you just can't live with AT! Alex Z-n —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.186.188.45 (talk) 11:06, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

You can find an article on wikipedia discussing people attributing human traits to animals. The dog could look like he's laughing, but he's not, it's us trying to find that commonality we see in humans, and that attracts us to some animals and not others for keeping as pets. Astroboy3002 (talk) 00:58, 29 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ken McE (talk • contribs)

Under the heading temperament it is also stated that "Airedales are also known for expressing exactly what they are thinking, unlike more aloof breeds." This is totally unverifiable and should be removed - how on earth does anyone profess to know what an aloof dog is thinking and whether or not it is expressing it?Mother shipton (talk) 11:09, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I think there's a danger of become over pedantic when it comes to the attributes of dogs. Does a dog have a sense of humour in the human sense? Maybe, maybe not but I think a lot of owners would say their dogs have a 'dog sense of humour' and it's fair to describe a breed as having a sense of humour. There are a lot of traits dogs can have that could be described in human terms. Fearless, bad tempered, loving, gregarious, cantankerous or in the case of the greyhounds (best breed ever I might add) I've owned 'drama queens'. Are we to qualify every aspect of breed attributes with the suffix 'for a dog' or 'in a dog way'. A commonsense approach is needed but the big question is where you draw the line between fair comment and excessive anthropomorphism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.41.60.186 (talk) 21:44, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

If reliable sources talk about the sense of humor (and I have read that about certain terriers), it can be added as long as it's written neutrally. With a breed this popular, there are ample sources to pick from: between standards, breed books, and parent clubs in various countries, there's no dearth of information. The way the original sentence was worded was inappropriate. "The Airedale seems to have a sense of humor" is fine, but "unique" and "great" is one person's opinion.

This is a problem unique to articles about domestic animal breeds, since experience with many individuals gives you an idea of their general personality traits but isn't enough according to the verifiability policy. I try to avoid policy wonkery in favor of common sense, but this is not JustDogBreeds.com. There are many sites that offer anecdotal information; an encyclopedia should not be one of them. – anna 10:31, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Largest Terrier?

The article states that Airedale is the largest terrier. I'm not a dog expert but I'm pretty sure that Black Russian Terrier should have that title, not Airedale. --Haxflo (talk) 01:05, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Agree --Abatishchev (talk) 22:24, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Very true. BRT is a Very Good dog (with very bad health), but it's a sort of KGB-bred Baskerville's Hound - not a Terrier. Alex Z-n —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.186.188.45 (talk) 11:13, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

well i dont care what you say about the dog because the russians made that breed up by cross breeding so they shouldnt be allowed to call it what it is today the airdale is the true and nobal king of terriers and is the true biggest terrier —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.202.254 (talk) 00:57, 27 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment relocated here by Ken McE (talk • contribs)

Err, you do realize that the Brits made up the Airedale out of a variety of sources, not all of them terriers? We allowed them to decide what the result was, why can't Russians do the same? Also, I understand there is some ADT in the BRT bloodlines, no I don't have a citation. Ken McE (talk) 01:58, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Added the Wikify tag

based on the comments on this talk page and on the amount of time some of these issues have been here and remain unresolved and undiscussed, I have added the "wikify" tag. 207.237.198.152 (talk) 15:49, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Copyright problem

The two largest paragraphs in the "History" section (3rd and 4th) are copied verbatim from "Miner, _Airedale Terriers (A Complete Pet Owner's Manual)_, Barron's, 1998" - pages 6 and 7. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.70.119.188 (talk) 17:39, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

A very belated thanks for pointing this out. I've removed the content now. Traumnovelle (talk) 03:27, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

My edits: wikifying and editing

I just did a series of edits to this page, mainly wikifying a lot of it (including templating the references) and general copyediting. It's probably not complete though. Should this have some kind of minor cleanup tag? --Knockwood (talk) 11:33, 5 March 2009 (UTC) TEMPERAMENT In this section it saya "If children and Airedale are both trained correctly," what t f? are children no better than dogs now? I do not think this is a good statement to make understandable if the children are taught not to smack a dog but this is not mentioned ----- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.50.152 (talk) 23:08, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

The need to train both the dog and the child is common to many breeds, not just ADT's. The dog has to learn that this funny looking, odd smelling little thing fits into the category of "puppy", the child in turn has to be taught not to poke the dog in the eye, and that dog parts are not removable. I don't believe the statement was meant to demean children. Ken McE (talk) 00:01, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Origins

I changed the origins comment at the beginning of the article. It originally stated that the Airedale originates from the Black and Tan and an Otterhound. In reality the Airedale originates from a Welsh Terrier and an Otterhound. If you have any doubts check out the picture of the Welsh and you'll say "wow! Look a small Airedale!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.151.114.110 (talk) 20:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Juvenile renal disease JRD and Airedales

how about mentioning this genetic disease in here: http://www.airedalehealthfoundation.org/id34.html ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.58.122.190 (talk) 10:02, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Clean up

I've tagged this article for a clean-up: currently it reads like an owners' guide rather than an encyclopedia article, and the majority of assertions are wholly unsourced ~dom Kaos~ (talk) 13:19, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

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Non-notable terriers

Re this complaint, I'm not aware of a hard and fast rule, but, in general, "notable" on Wikipedia means those who meet the general notability guidelines. It's a fair bar to set, if we want to avoid indiscriminate lists of any and every dog some editor has read about or seen. Maybe we don't want to avoid that. At the least, "notable" should be removed as a description of the current crop. Hell, the one without a name probably isn't even a fictional Airedale within the story itself. Pretty tenuous, even with a citation. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:03, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

I see what you're saying, but the very last line of that guideline you linked:

If a topic does not meet this criterion but still has some verifiable facts, it might be useful to discuss it within another article.

And the very next section header is:

Notability guidelines do not apply to content within an article

With the content of that section being:

The criteria applied to the creation or retention of an article are not the same as those applied to the content inside it. The notability guidelines do not apply to contents of articles or lists (with the exception of some lists, which restrict inclusion to notable items or people). Content coverage within a given article or list (i.e. whether something is noteworthy enough to be mentioned within the article or list) is governed by the principle of due weight and other content policies. For additional information about list articles, see Notability of lists and List selection criteria. (Emphasis added.)

I very much see where you're coming from, but it seems you're applying the wrong standard, the one for article creation, to the content of lists and articles.

As for specifically the fictional Airedale within The Great Gatsby, as the person who added that list item in the first place, if the consensus it is as tenuous as you claim, I will accept its deletion without further objection, but allow me to make the case: The Great Gatsby is undeniably a "notable" piece of literature, and the dog is undeniably a significant plot element of the novel which is mentioned in quite a few critical analyses. Rather than drown you with references, I will encourage you to Google "dog great gatsby" and give you the top hit pull quote:

Besides serving as a characterization vehicle, the puppy also helps the plot unravel and conclude with Gatsby's murder. Tom's lover is killed in a hit-and-run, committed by non other than Daisy. When George scours through Myrtle's belongings he finds a dog collar wrapped in tissue paper.

It is indeed true Fitzgerald also makes a reference to the supposed Airedale having white paws—which is not a typical feature of Airedales—but I would find it rather outlandish to claim (as I suspect you would agree) Snoopy, who does have his own page, fails to meet the requirements of a "Notable beagle" because he is both fictional and has a short tail. -- JCaesar (talk) 07:45, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

I should add: If the unnamed Airedale in The Great Gatsby fails to meet the standards of "notable" because he (she? Also a plot point in the book) is fictional, I would fully accept a solution by which another section for Notable references in the arts and literature or similar, by which Gatsby would undeniably meet that standard, as would Snoopy for beagles. -- JCaesar (talk) 08:06, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

References