Talk:Akzidenz-Grotesk/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Sainsf (talk · contribs) 20:32, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I find this interesting and well-written at first glance. Will post my comments soon. Cheers, Sainsf (talk · contribs) 20:32, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Sainsf, thanks and will watch this page. Blythwood (talk) 20:55, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• No need for a ref in the infobox if the fact is cited in the main text
• Per WP:MOSLEAD, the lead should be longer and proportionate to the article length, touching upon all major aspects of the article. Presently I don't see all the important points (say the names of all the versions) summarized well in the lead. This needs a good rewrite.
• Akzidenz indicates its intended use ... for sans-serif typefaces at the time. This is quite an important detail, especially as the name might look strange to many readers. This should not be mentioned just in the lead.
  • Resolved, I hope, although I don't think the names of all the versions could be practically fitted into the lead. I've added an etymology section.

Design characteristics

• Link 'san-serif' on first mention in the article (excluding the lead)
  • Done
• You can link 'German'
  • Done
• Inline citation needed for the last line of the 3rd para
  • I couldn't find an obvious single citation for this, but effectively it's just a preview of sections 7-8, especially 8.2: that a lot of people have created digital fonts based on Akzidenz-Grotesk since it's popular and public domain. I've put "as discussed below" to make that clear.
• As is normal in typefaces cut during the metal type period When exactly was this period?
  • Rephrased. What I meant was that this is standard in all manufacture of metal type (which was done from Gutenberg up to, say, the 1950s, with use of metal type continuing into the 1980s or so without significant further product development). But as that's a mouthful I've simply linked to metal type.

History

• Probably link 'foundries'?
  • Done
• Berthold literature Berthold is not mentioned since the lead. It should be mentioned by the full name on first mention in the main text.
  • More of an intro of who they are added. The only major thing that needs fixing now is the intro, which I'm drafting at the moment.
• Recent research by Eckehart Schumacher-Gebler, Indra Kupferschmid and Dan Reynolds Who are these people? Try adding their professions (Same for Reynolds and Florian Hardwig, Seeman's Handbuch der Schriftarten)
• Professor Indra Kupferschmid, who has researched the early use of sans-serifs in Germany Per the above point this should actually go into the first mention. Actually take the full name on first mention and introduce the person.. take just the last name in later mentions.
  • I've described all of them as 'historians', which I think is an acceptable basic summary, although they have different primary professions: Schumacher-Gebler is primarily a printer, Kupferschmid a professor of graphic design and Reynolds a font designer with a doctorate in history (specifically of font design). None have Wikipedia articles, although Kupferschmid has one on the German-language Wikipedia, which I've linked to.
• shadowed sans-serif ('Schattierte Grotesk') Template:lang-de could be of good use here and wherever we have German terms.
  • Fixed: all quotes in German now templated.
• "Accidenz-Gothisch" blackletter Duplicate link. Also 'Bauer foundry of Frankfurt'
  • Fixed
• confusion may have occurred with fonts held by Berthold that the Theinhardt foundry licensed Not a problem but is a long list of refs that necessary here? Ref. 19 is actually repeated
  • Yeah, need to think about what citations are right here. Essentially, a lot of writers (understandably) copied this information which turned out to be false, and you see it on a lot of websites and books. So I wanted to really throw in every relevant citation I could here in case I dropped dead and some well-meaning person reading the article decided it needed to be "fixed" to correct the "mistake". I've now rephrased the section to make it a bit clearer, too.

Mid-twentieth-century use

• From the name of the section, does it not belong in 'History' since it is in the past?
  • Good point. Converted "history" to "early history".
• Duplinks: Karl Gerstner, Monotype Grotesque, x-height
  • Fixed
• Link Paul Shaw on first mention
  • Fixed
• Introduce Eskilson
  • Done, although doesn't have an article
• Maybe link Haas foundry?
  • Done

Post-metal releases

• First line and the last line of the section need citations
  • First line done, last line removed as it's discussed both further up and further down the article
• Duplinks: Günter Gerhard Lange, Karl Gerstner (just say Gerstner)
  • Fixed

Distinctive characteristics

• Not sure if big blanks are ok in an article to accommodate pics, though I personally don't see any issue in it
  • Yes, we're a bit lucky here for pictures: this style of minimal poster isn't considered eligible for copyright, so I wanted to throw a few pictures in. I think it's the best option
• Duplinks: Helvetica, apertures
  • Fixed
• Characteristics of this typeface are Are all the bullets after this sourced properly? Maybe add citations right after this line
  • Now fixed
• the 't' of the Schmalhalbfett weight 'Schmalhalbfett' is in lower case on first mention
  • Fixed

Versions

• Berthold Schriftprobe 473 What exactly is this?
  • Good point. Fixed
• In the bullets, is it customary to write the features in capitalized case (like 'Light Extended')?
  • Yes. See e.g. here or here.
• Other weights were added...ultra-bold 'Akzidenz-Grotesk Super'. Needs an inline citation
  • Fixed
• No caption for the pic in Akzidenz-Grotesk Buch?
  • Added
• The first para of Akzidenz-Grotesk Schulbuch and the last part of Akzidenz-Grotesk Next need inline citations
  • Fixed
• Duplinks – Günter Gerhard Lange (Akzidenz-Grotesk Buch, Akzidenz-Grotesk Old Face; also don't take the full name once the person has been mentioned by the full name earlier), Helvetica (Akzidenz-Grotesk Buch), Futura and blackletter style (Akzidenz-Grotesk Schulbuch)
  • Fixed

Similarities to other typefaces

• Duplinks – Helvetica, Univers, Folio, Erik Spiekermann
  • Fixed

Notable users

• Maybe link Arizona State University?
  • Yes, done

General comments

• Per WP:CAPFRAG a few captions should not have a period at the end (if they are not complete sentences)
  • Yes, done

That's all from me. A comprehensive, well-written article :) Sainsf (talk · contribs) 13:17, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Sainsf, thank you so much, this is great feedback. I'm going to think about the intro-I think I may add a section called "etymology" at the top as "Akzidenz" doesn't neatly translate into English. I'm going to comment under each of your suggestions as a checklist of resolving each issue. Blythwood (talk) 02:02, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

An etymology section sounds great. Take your time with the writing but keep updating this page. Cheers, Sainsf (talk · contribs) 03:37, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

@Blythwood: Hi, no activity here since a week.. any update? Cheers, Sainsf (knock knock · am I there?) 06:57, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Sainsf, yes, sorry, I've been a bit sidetracked by other things this week. I plan on getting the rewrites done tomorrow. Blythwood (talk) 22:21, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Sainsf, I think I've finished the rewrite now. Blythwood (talk) 21:09, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Great job :) All changes look good. Ready for promotion. Sainsf (knock knock · am I there?) 21:57, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Sainsf, wonderful! Thanks for the valuable advice. Blythwood (talk) 22:46, 30 April 2020 (UTC)