Talk:Albanian–Venetian War/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: JonCatalán^(Talk) 17:51, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Here are some comments made in good faith and with the purpose of being constructive. I also copyedited the text a bit; feel free to revert anything you feel is undue. Also, is there a dispute between Sulmues and Gaius Claudius Nero? There is some back and forth editing evident in the article's history.

Lead

• "The Republic was, thereafter, left with few soldiers to defend Albania and a peace was soon signed. The war between Albania and the Ottoman Empire, however, continued." → This is unclear. Was peace signed only with Venice? If so, that should be clarified. I would suggest merging these two sentences into one, for fluidity. For example, "Left with few soldiers, Albania soon signed peace with Venice, while continuing the war against the Ottoman Empire."

• Good suggestion and done. --Sulmues ^(talk) 02:25, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• The lead needs to reflect more accurately on the rest of the article. It is not an introduction to the main body; it is an introduction to the topic, in general. It should also be around two paragraphs long, loosely following the structure of the rest of the article.

• Done. --Sulmues ^(talk) 02:36, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Dispute over Dagno

• "Skanderbeg had managed to unite the major Albanian princes under his leadership at Lezhë." → What happened at Lezhë?

• Tried to explain better through this edit --Sulmues ^(talk) 00:42, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• This part doesn't seem to fit in with the lead. In the lead you write that the hostility was over the fortress of Dagno. Here, hostilities have to do with the leadership of "Dagnum" (is this Dagno, or what?). For what it's worth, the lead should be independent of the rest of the article (which is why I tend to write it last). It should recapitulate the entire article in two or three paragraphs.

• First, I edited Dagnum See this edit: Since there might be dispute as to what name should we use: the Albanian one Denje (or Deje), or the Italian one Dagno, I believe that the latin Dagnum is the more presentable for the article, the reason being the official documents are mostly in Latin and have Dagnum. Please let me know if you feel otherwise. I'll go through the rest of your remarks and then I'll come back to this one which besides the Dagnum regards the consistency with the lede.--Sulmues ^(talk) 00:50, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• The first paragraph is kind of confusing, and leaves the reader wondering how this is relevant. You tie it into the topic in the second paragraph. I suggest you make the tie first, and elucidate on the events second; that way readers know the connection from the get-go, and the article flows more lucidly.

• Mentioned the killing in the first paragraph, and then detailed in a second paragraph why the killing occurred through this edit. It should be clearer and more fluid now. --Sulmues ^(talk) 01:01, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• Once this section is clarified/re-arranged I can copyedit it to meet critera 1a.

Initial Campaigns

• Are Danjë and Dagno synonyms? If so, I suggest using just one, otherwise it's confusing.

They are. The first is Albanian (alternatively Dejë is used) and the second is Italian. As stated above, put everything to Dagnum, in Latin, unless Gaius disagrees. --Sulmues ^(talk) 01:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• The same goes with "Skanderbeg" and "Kastrioti". You don't use Kastrioti before this, and so it's impossible to know who you're referring to without knowing the full story on Skanderbeg. You should never assume your readers know what you're talking about.

• Agreed, and it seems like you already fixed that. --Sulmues ^(talk) 01:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• "Two galleys bound for Crete were redirected to Durazzo to watch over the events there." → Albanian or Venetian?

• Explained in the article a little better. Venetian Albania owned Durazzo at that time. Venetian Albania was a possession of the Republic of Venice. Sometimes, rather than saying Venetian Albania, or the Republic of Venice, it is Ok to just say Venice. In fact the military orders and the foreign policy of the Venetian Albania were given/made directly by the doge. Should be better now. --Sulmues ^(talk) 01:39, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• What do you mean when using the word "wean"?

• Substituted "wean away" with "push away" [1]. Gaius' English is way better than mine though, so I was bold enough to take that out. Hopefully he won't mind. --Sulmues ^(talk) 01:44, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• I did a lot of editing to the second paragraph, re-arranging a lot of the sentences and merging others. It's still kind of messy, and the relationship between sentences remains somewhat unclear.

• It's confusing because what the Venetians did was scarily sneaky. First they promised an award to the killer of Skanderbeg, and undeground they wanted the Dukagjini to break from Skanderbeg. At the same time they urged the Ottomans to invade Skanderbeg, but eventually they sent Venier to him to offer peace. All of it was to avoid the battle, which they eventually didn't avoid.This change should clarify. --Sulmues ^(talk) 02:03, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Battle of the River Drin...

• This is generally good. A couple of questions, though;
• "The Venetian presence in Albania was weakened and the garrisons in the cities were stretched thin." → Why? If the Venetian force was composed of men scraped from local garrisons, this should be clarified when describing the Venetian order of battle.

• Done --Sulmues ^(talk) 02:09, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• "Despite these setbacks, the victory at the River Drin gave Skanderbeg the opportunity to defeat an Ottoman incursion..." → I don't see the relationship. Perhaps it should read: "Despite these setbacks, with the Venetian invasion defeated, Skanderbeg could focus on defeating the Ottoman incursion..."

• Good observation and reflected.--Sulmues ^(talk) 02:12, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Aftermath

• "With Durazzo, Scutari, and Dagno on the point of surrender, the Venetians sent Andrea Venier to open peace negotiations with the Albanians." → Did this occur during or after Skanderbeg's battle with the Ottomans? It seems that Skanderbeg removed pressure from those three locations as he turned to meet the Ottoman invasion, as he left only a garrison at Baleci (which was routed).

• It was after and made a little change to be more clear. --Sulmues ^(talk) 02:18, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

General Comments

• The article seems factually accurate.
• The article seems broad in coverage (except for the "dispute over Dagno" part).
• Neutral.
• Stable?
• Images look good.

This review will be placed on hold for three days, to allow the author to engage the reviewer and edit the article. The article will be closed on 6 October, pending changes. JonCatalán^(Talk) 19:01, 3 October 2010 (UTC)