Talk:Albert Craig (rhymester)

Page move

I moved it from Albert Craig (The Surrey Poet) to its current title Albert Craig (poet). User:Jhall1 had a problem with that, and we had a chat on my talk page about it.

We've agreed that Albert Craig (rhymester) would be the best name. Conversation copied below so that others can also have a say. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 21:07, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Copied from User talk:JackofOz

I'm not sure that the move was a good idea, for two reasons. He was always known as "The Surrey Poet", and his verse was so bad that it's rather stretching things to call him a poet rather than a writer of verse. JH (talk page) 08:46, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

• Hmmm.

• My immediate concern was with Albert Craig (The Surrey Poet). Two concerns, actually.
  • Without inverted commas, it's saying he was a poet who came from Surrey, as distinct from another Albert Craig who was also a poet but hailed from Lancashire, perhaps. But "The Surrey Poet" was not simply a way of describing him, but the actual nickname he bore, so it should always have been Albert Craig ("The Surrey Poet") if we were going to use that to disambiguate him.
  • But disambiguation tags are meant to be as absolutely minimal as possible, just enough to distinguish the subject from other people of the same name. For example, if it were ever necessary to disambiguate William Shakespeare, would it be William Shakespeare ("The Bard of Avon"), or would it be simply William Shakespeare (playwright)? I strongly suggest it would be the latter.

• If it were not for Craig's poetry, would we be remembering him at all? We acknowledge that his writings, whatever their merits, do fall into that technical definition of poetry: "His poetry was not renowned for any literary merit …". And we do have a "See also: Cricket poetry" at the bottom. But I note that he's not in any poet categories, so we seem to having a bet each way here.

• I'm reminded of William McGonagall, who "… was a Scottish weaver, doggerel poet and actor. He won notoriety as an extremely bad poet who exhibited no recognition of or concern for his peers' opinions of his work." At McGonagall, he's listed as "William McGonagall, a Scottish poet". And he's in Category:Scottish poets and Category:Victorian poets.

• Now, Craig did not give himself airs by calling himself a "poet", as McGonagall did, preferring the term "rhymester". Maybe we can call him Albert Craig (rhymester). I could certainly live with that. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 22:12, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

You make some good points. I quite like your "Albert Craig (rhymester)" idea. JH (talk page) 20:55, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Before changing it again, I'll copy the above to the talk page so that others can have a say. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 21:07, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

We're not going to be getting any other opinions, JH, so I've done the decent thing and moved it as per our agreement. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 01:55, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. JH (talk page) 08:48, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Chelsea didn't play Northampton until 1965, what is the source for Craig's crowd intervention ?

Chelsea didn't play Northampton until 1965, what is the source for Craig's crowd intervention ? Planetearthisblue (talk) 07:26, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

As cited in the article, it was Reference 1, Basic Easterbrook's article in Wisden. It's possible that Easterbrook made a mistake regarding Chelsea's opposition. JH (talk page) 08:17, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

A websearch has turned up another reference to the supposed match between Chelsea and Northampton, as part of [1]:

"Widely reported was an incident at a Chelsea v. Northampton match:

The proudest moment of the poet's life occurred at a football match between two league clubs. Objecting to the referee's ruling, the spectators threatened to rush the ground. Craig was equal to the occasion and jumping on a box, he called out: ‘Boys, do nothing tonight that you will regret tomorrow. I have been your captain for 26 years, so take my advice and go home.’ They did and he afterwards received the thanks of the committee for saving the reputation of the club. [Footnote32]"

Footnote 32 gives a quotation from The Star, 8 July 1909. As that was the date of Craig's death, it must have come from an obituary. It only refers to a match between "two league clubs". So it looks like the event definitely occurred but Chelsea's opponents were not Northampton. JH (talk page) 08:32, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

The match he "controlled" the crowd was Wednesday 29th April 1908 v Notts County 1-2 ......Morning Leader - Thursday 30 April 1908 Planetearthisblue (talk) 11:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. JH (talk page) 17:20, 6 July 2024 (UTC)