Talk:Alderson Broaddus University

Copy-edit/fact-check needed

" given annually to an African-American students.." Is it an (singular) of students (plural)? Also, there is an extra period at the end of the sentence. Kdammers (talk) 17:30, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Closed or just in the process of closing?

One or more unregistered editors are insisting that the lede sentence of this article use the past tense - "Alderson Broaddus University was" - instead of the present tense. The most recent edit by 71.223.96.166 included the edit summary ""was" is appropriate, since it no longer is accredited, can no longer confer degrees, and has ended student instruction since board of trusties vote on July 31, 2023".

I have not yet seen any sources that say that the institution is already closed. The sources currently in the article - Metro News and CNN - state that the university has been ordered to close and that its trustees voted to close the university. But they don't say that the university is already closed. Until we have sources that say that, we cannot say that. ElKevbo (talk) 16:33, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Alderson Broaddus University no longer exists as a functioning educational institution, so saying it "was a private Baptist university..." is perfectly appropriate. There are naturally some activities involving the winding-down of the corporate entity, but that corporate entity is no longer a university. It is not accredited, can confer no degrees, has no current students (only former students, which are described as in the recent news articles on the closure), holds no classes now or in the foreseeable future, and has been declared as closed by the board of trustees.

When a real person dies, they leave behind an estate that still has to be settled, however we don't wait until the final disposition is complete to say that the person is dead. They died when their functioning as a living human being ended. When a corporate entity "dies" there is also naturally a timeline for finalizing the "estate" of that entity. On July 31 2023 the West Virginia Higher Education Policy Commission actions put the university on terminal life support, but the vote by the university's board of trustees pulled the plug.

The simplest definition of a University (or any school for that manner) is a place &/or organization where educational activities occur. Those activities ceased (quite traumatically for some) for Alderson Broaddus University on July 31 2023. All that is left is the administrative paperwork, which is an ancillary requirement in support of education and not an actual educational activity in and of itself. The process of publishing an obituary of a deceased person does not demonstrate that the person is alive; quite the contrary, in fact. Likewise the processing of transcripts of prior education activates for former students of a defunct university is in no way evidence that it has maintained some kind of zombie half-life as a current educational institution. Likewise any other efforts by the former university to assist in placement of these students in other educational institutions is also strictly administrative, and a result of former educational activities that had taken place, not current educational activities. If a corporate entity is not now engaged in (nor has in any reasonable future prospects to engage in) educational activities, is cannot be reasonably called a university without abrogating the core meaning of the word. -- 71.223.96.166 (talk) 17:18, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

That's a perfectly valid personal opinion but until we have reliable sources that say that the institution is closed we need to stick with what's said in the sources we currently have. ElKevbo (talk) 17:23, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

So your really going to argue that an University that is not now, nor has plans to ever again hold classes (which is in the cited sources), has no current students (in the sources), and has been declared permanently closed by their highest governing body (in the sources) is still a fully functioning university, just because it hasn't admin staff hasn't finished tidying some paperwork? And that a reasonable person cannot conclude that such an organization is defunct as a university? I'm not trying to pull a trick hat here - this is really straight forward, and I'm not mashing unrelated information together to create original research. This isn't Randy from Boise territory. -- 71.223.96.166 (talk) 17:58, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

It's really quite simple (and you're seemingly attempting to make it more complicated). Unless and until you can cite a reliable source that states that ABU is closed or has closed, as opposed to will close or has decided to close, we will continue to refer to the subject in the present tense. Just because ABU may have ceased engaging in the activities you associate with and expect of universities does not mean that it has ceased to exist as an entity. General Ization ^Talk 18:04, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Also, with regard to the "highest governing body", the West Virginia Higher Education Policy Commission (HEPC) revoked ABU's authorization to confer degrees in the state effective December 31, 2023. Last time I checked it was still August 2023. ABU is not permitted to enroll new students beginning with the fall 2023 semester, but seniors scheduled to graduate at the end of the fall term may return to complete their degrees on schedule.[1] General Ization ^Talk 18:14, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for my lack of clarity - by highest governing body, I had meant the board of trusties, as they are the ones with the final say as to if the University will continue any attempts to teach any students. Poor wording on my part, should have been more specific there. The decision by the board to close permanently took away the option of seniors to attend classes. -- 71.223.96.166 (talk) 18:28, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Per Alderson-Broaddus' website, "Those students who will be eligible to graduate in December 2023 will also be able to finish their degrees." glman (talk) 18:33, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

If any classes are still occurring or scheduled to occur, at minimum my premise is premature. -- 71.223.96.166 (talk) 19:22, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that's the entire point. glman (talk) 19:53, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

References