Talk:Alexander Riazantsev

Requested move 20 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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• Alexander Ryazantsev (disambiguation) → Alexander Riazantsev
• Alexander Riazantsev → Alexander Riazantsev (chess player)
• Alex Riazantsev → Alexander Riazantsev (ice hockey)

– The footballer's name is transliterated as "Aleksandr Ryazantsev", thus making his name the sole such English Wikipedia main title header. The other two men, the chess player and the hockey player, whose Russian names are exactly the same as the footballer's name, are transliterated via a different spelling — "Alexander Riazantsev" — thus requiring parenthetical qualifiers. Although the main title header of the ice hockey player's entry is currently at given name "Alex", there is no indication that his WP:COMMONNAME is, in fact, "Alex", since all databases list him as "Alexander". Also, taking into account that this dab page lists two men named "Alexander Riazantsev" and only one man named "Aleksandr Ryazantsev", the dab page's main title header should use the transliteration form applicable to the two man, thus there would appear to be no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and therefore has no need for the qualifier "(disambiguation)". — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:36, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 03:26, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
• Support seems to be an uncontroversial move. Kaiser matias (talk) 22:02, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose and move to Aleksandr Ryazantsev (disambiguation). From WP:NCRUS: Titles of disambiguation and name pages are always romanized using the WP romanization of Russian. In this case, the romanization (WP:RUS) is "Aleksandr Ryazantsev", thus Aleksandr Ryazantsev (disambiguation) is the correct title. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 21:47, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

There is no point in moving Alexander Ryazantsev (disambiguation) → Aleksandr Ryazantsev (disambiguation) since the footballer is the sole subject of an English Wikipedia article whose name is transliterated as "Aleksandr Ryazantsev". All three names already had existing transliterations from Russian into English before these men became subjects of Wikipedia articles and the articles used WP:COMMONNAME forms in creating their main title headers.

Thus, there is no "correct" or "incorrect" form of transliterating these three names and any such concerns should be raised on the talk pages of subjects' articles, not at the disambiguation page which only compiles article headers of existing Wikipedia articles. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:41, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

WP:RUS WP:NCRUS is pretty clear on this, and while it is a proposal and not a policy, I see no reason not to follow it. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 14:57, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Guidelines such as WP:RUS or WP:UKR are useful when deciding upon the transliteration of low-notability names for which no "official" transliteration has been established. However, under strict application of Wikipedia guidelines, the composer, who used the French transliteration of his surname, Tchaikovsky, would have his surname transliterated via the English form, Chaikovsky, or via other variants, such as Chaykovsky, Perm Krai or Chaikovskij (crater), both of which are named after the composer.

In the case at hand, the two men whose "official" transliteration of their Russian surname is "Riazantsev" are not low-notability figures and have that transliteration listed in such databases as 365Chess (for the chess grandmaster) or Internet Hockey Database (for the ice hockey player). Furthermore, both men have also chosen the form of their given name that is spelled "Alexander" (and the ice hockey player does not use the form "Alex"), rather than to retain the Russian transliteration "Aleksandr", as the footballer Aleksandr Ryazantsev has done.

As a result, there is no WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and no need to use "(disambiguation)". —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:39, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Edited my reply above; WP:NCRUS is what I meant to refer to. We shouldn't impose a romanization standard on people's names, of course; but we can impose one on the title of disambiguation pages. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 21:52, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Imposition of a standard on titles of disambiguation pages also does not appear to be an intuitive process, especially if those listed under a dab page's main title header are fairly notable individuals whose name transliterations are well established in the public arena. There is no evidence that the "Ryazantsev" surname transliteration is more "correct" than the "Riazantsev" one.

The name disambiguation page in English Wikipedia is Ryazantsev, with the lead line stating, "Ryazantsev or Riazantsev (Russian: Рязанцев) is a Russian masculine surname,...", and a listing of five names, including the two "Alexander_Riazantsev", the footballer Aleksandr Ryazantsev, another footballer named Maksim Ryazantsev and a politician named Vladislav Ryazantsev. The dab page may have been named "Ryazantsev" simply because three of the men had that name transliteration and only two had the "Riazantsev" transliteration.

It should be also noted that the main title header in the name's Wikidata entry is in fact "Riazantsev" and not "Ryazantsev". Wikidata also includes the German Wikipedia dab page Rjasanzew, the French Wikipedia dab page Riazantsev (proving that the chess grandmaster and the ice hockey player are following the example of Tchaikovsky and others in using the French transliteration), the Latvian Wikipedia dab page Rjazancevs as well as the Ukrainian Wikipedia and the Russian Wikipedia, both of which have many additional names of native notables.

Thus, at least as far as English Wikipedia's and Wikidata's use of "Ryazantsev"/"Riazantsev" is concerned, there does not appear to be a standard transliteration nor a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the disambiguation page. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:54, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.