Talk:Anthony Hudson (soccer)

Conflict of interest

It appears that someone close to the article subject is continually making edits to this page in order to flatter the article subject. I believe that the subject has not been demfamed, as statements are factually based and cited. If you wish to remove these statements, please dicuss here first before this descends into an edit war. Patrick478 (talk) 22:45, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Users editing this page should familiarize themselves with Wikipedia's policy on Conflicts of Interest. 27.252.215.47 (talk) 02:52, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Users should remember that for a biography the user should be impartial and not embellished a persons page. WP:IMPARTIAL NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 09:36, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi CFBCFA - posting a factual statement about the ranking of the NZ national team is not minority or fringe viewpoint - it's fact, not a view point. I've reverted your removal of this statement - if you feel this is a mistake feel free to use the article talk page to discuss. Patrick478 (talk) 22:04, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

I've added a conflict of interest tag, as it appears there may be edits made by persons or organisations closely tied to the subject of this article. There has also been some limited edit-warring on topics which should obviously not be the subject of such edit-wars (editing in a factual piece of information should not be the subject of an edit war).

Please note COI editing is strongly discouraged on Wikipedia. Please note that if you do have a potential conflict of interest, you are expected to disclose it. Please see WP:DISCLOSE for further details.

Anyone with a potential conflict of interest should not edit the article directly, but instead should make a request on the talk page & disclose the potential conflict of interest (without necessarily "outing" their actual identity or relationship) so that those who are not conflicted can discuss and make edits. Macktheknifeau (talk) 05:36, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 11 April 2017

Reference should be

should be Quebec99 (talk) 10:42, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Done Sarahj2107 (talk) 13:52, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

References

Senior Playing Career

Can't find any references to Hudson playing at or making any appearances for the senior teams for the below clubs/years.
1996–1999 West Ham United
1999–2000 Luton Town
2001–2002 NEC Nijmegen

Information is provided in newspapers articles that he was with the clubs so have left in the main article but removed from career stats until information is provided on actual appearances. Also can't find any reference to his actual 10 appearances with Wilmington HammerheadsNZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 22:10, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

No need to remove the team names from career stats when the information is provided from articles as a proof of being at the clubs, so can be left to fill in until citations can be found.Nzwhiteout (talk) 02:56, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi Nzwhiteout, thank you for discussing this on talk page. I have found no evidence that Hudson actually made any appearances for the above clubs. While he may have been on their books, so I have left them in the main article as it was clear he was with them, I feel it would be best that they are removed from stats as Hudson had no appearances for the teams. NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 05:41, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Lack of appearances is not a reason to remove from infobox if he was part of the team. --SuperJew (talk) 16:30, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I can find no information that he played any games for these clubs above and it also now appears that the dates listed are incorrect as found information that he went to NCE Nijmegen in 1999 but only actually lasted one year which brings his time at Luton Town into doubt as well. It also appears he had no senior appearances with West Ham. I can find newspaper articles that refer to him being at these clubs but it is starting to seem like they are regurgitated information that newspapers keep repeating and nothing on the actual club websites or soccerbase that shows he was actually with them.NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 21:06, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Just because information cannot be found via internet does not prove the fact that subject was not part of the team. Lack of information is not a reason for removal. The source that claiming he was at NEC Nijmegen in 1999 comes from single newspaper article as well whereas there are several database sites that show that he was at the clubs. Please don't remove information that has multiple sources to back it up.115.188.151.208 (talk) 02:20, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Just because information can be found on the internet doesn't mean it's true, a lot like some of the information I'm finding on this page. If he was with these clubs he has no starts and no mins played. He has no stats so shouldn't be included in the stats box! User: NZ Footballs Conscience

It is not a stats box, it is an infobox which doesn't have to show stats only as its purpose is to lists the teams he was associated with as a player as well as appearances for the teams if applicable. Also there seems to be more sources claiming that he was in these teams, hence the infobox can list these teams whilst showing no games on the stats for your information. No reason to remove the list of teams he was associated with. --Redrose58 (talk) 13:41, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Have updated the infobox to reflect years Hudson actually spent at Luton Town and NEC Nijmegen. Luton town was a loan while at West Ham for a few months and NEC Nijmegen while originally was going to be for two years. Hudson returned home to England after six months. NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 06:56, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Hudson didn't play for West Ham's first team and shouldn't be referenced as such. He was with their B team. Nzwhiteout can you please refrain from editing to make it appear that he was with the clubs top team NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 00:44, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

References

Personal Life Edits

@Bloomerang2: Please do not edit out relevant information regarding Hudsons personal life. Information is in his own words taken from the article referenced, if you feel it shouldn't be there then please explain why it should be removed. NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 00:45, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Biographies of living persons must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment. The article that you have sourced is from express.co.uk, which is a UK tabloid newspaper, and is regarded as one of potentially unreliable sources. Although there are quotes from the subject embedded in the article, the time-frames of the quotes does not match some of the claims and hence would require a reliable source to verify the claim. Thus editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons, due to the referenced source's verifiability being in question. All mainstream news media can make mistakes hence corrections will need to be made and should be watched out for, and much tabloid journalism will be sensationalist and gossip-driven. I have only edited parts where the source does not support the claim, such as "the drinking continued through his time at Holland club NEC Nijmegen" where the source only claims "West Ham released him and he was picked up by Nijmegen in Holland." and that subject lasted only six months at the club, which mentions no claims about the subject drinking through his time at the club. Also removed claims "While a player-coach in North Carolina and on a suspended sentence for drink-driving" where the source does not claim that subject was suspended during this period. Most importantly, please provide other reliable sources for verifiability before adding back claims of the living subject. Thank you-Bloomerang2 (talk) 01:28, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Before the material is restored it must have consensus and it must be rewritten to avoid copyright issues. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 01:50, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi User:NeilN Can you explain how that is copyvio. The match is only 8.3% so isn't much of a copyright violation. NZ Footballs Conscience. Personally I think the information is relevant information and should be included in this person personal life. NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 02:00, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

It's a pretty blatant case of close phrasing. Compare the text and you'll see sentences with only one or two words changed. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:08, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

I disagree, look at the copyvios report and very little is the same sentences with few words changed. I think the only thing that needs to come out is the quote. NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 02:14, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

The tool does not pick up close paraphrasing. Also, it's clear that whoever wrote that paragraph needs help with their English. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:20, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for insulting me too then. NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 02:23, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

As I did not check who wrote the text, I did not mean to insult you. Sorry about that. It was more of a comment on the text itself. Also, you are aware that that 8.3% applies to the entire article, not just the one paragraph? --NeilN ^{talk to me} 15:32, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

All good shouldn't take things personally anyway. Will manage my writing better in the future. NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 00:57, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

If there's a dispute about sources you could get other opinions at WP:RSN. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 01:12, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree to change it to match how User:Bloomerang2 had it written so will convert it too that. NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 21:48, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

All biographies can duplicate at beginning of the article if it is a significant information, and at this instance, the information is vital information and link to how the subject started his playing career.SMorningH (talk) 01:03, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi SMorningH, while I agree that Alan Hudson is Anthony dad, the fact that he started playing is unsourced and as such can't be confirmed that was the reason he got into football. NZ Footballs Conscience (talk) 02:51, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

References

Content Removal

@NZ Footballs Conscience: Please refrain from continuous removal of appropriate and relevant content due to your subjective reasonings. Being part of Play-offs regardless of positions on table, and qualification in major FIFA tournaments are achievements for football managers at any level.Rumorattic (talk) 01:33, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

@Rumorattic: So convenient for you to turn up and know how to do all this wonderful editting and the first page you do is Hudsons page... Besides that, as the latest edits show, finishing 6th and not actually making the playoffs by playing the play off game is hardly an achievement. If we started listing all managers achievements for just making playoffs or 3rd place then some managers lists would be massive. It has to be an actually achievement to be considered as per WP:Football guidelines.

@NZ Footballs Conscience: WP:Football guidelines are guidelines for football players not managers.

Hi Rumorattic, I think you will find that Football consensus is that for achievements, they have to be actual achievements. For Real Marylands, they didn't even make the play offs, it was a play off game that they lost. Finishing 3rd in a tournament that everyone is invited too isn't an achievement. Achievements should be winning the tournament or making major FIFA tournaments. Wimble Wombat (talk) 02:11, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Wimble Wombat, I understand your view on the Play-off, but Bronze medal is a medal given out to represent 3rd place achievements, and being a finalist in a tournament means that you have come 2nd in the tournament, which both are regarded as achievements in any sports world wide. Please check your consensus for achievements in sports thanks.

@NZ Footballs Conscience: 3rd place Bronze medal and Runner-up of any competition is an achievement. Check other manager's achievements such as Louis van Gaal (former Netherlands coach), Fernando Santos (Portugal coach) where they list 3rd place as their honours. Also, check teams such as New Zealand national rugby sevens team, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_national_rugby_sevens_team) where they state up to 4th place as honours. Please refrain from removing well referenced and well resourced contents from page due to subjective opinions.-Rumorattic (talk) 10:48, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Personal Life

@217.61.231.21: Please do not remove information from his personal life, it is from a legitimate source and some of it is in his own words. Unless you have source information to the contrary then it should not be removed. NZ Footballs Conscience^(talk) 08:23, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Anthony Hudson (football manager). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304053146/http://www.oceaniafootball.com/ofc/Competitions/ScheduleResults/tabid/1015/Competition/742a438c-adca-4459-b39f-2df417db82e6/language/en-US/Default.aspx to http://www.oceaniafootball.com/ofc/Competitions/ScheduleResults/tabid/1015/Competition/742a438c-adca-4459-b39f-2df417db82e6/language/en-US/Default.aspx

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Inappropriate expansion of plot summaries

Hello NZ Footballs Conscience. I wanted to let you know that your recent edit to the Anthony Hudson (football manager) plot summary have been removed because they added a significant amount of unnecessary detail with impartial tone. Rankings of national teams are inappropriate for introduction of subject's BLPs and are suited to be reflected on respective national team's pages instead. BLPs should be written responsibly, cautiously, and in a dispassionate tone, avoiding both understatement and overstatement. Please avoid impartial tones and excessive detail when editing plot summaries/synopses. You may read the plot summary edit guides to learn more about contributing constructively to plot summaries/synopses. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you.188.72.103.81 (talk) 13:16, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi IP user, if you aren’t going to remove all bits about rankings you can’t just remove portions of it. Nice of you to come along and your first edit is this page too. Very convenient NZ Footballs Conscience^(talk) 21:24, 8 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.153.120.71 (talk)

Hi @222.153.120.71: either all information is allow or none, we can't pick or choose. It isn't a fluff piece to make Hudson look good, it has to be about actual referenced information and him being in charge while the team moved up is great, but is also true when the team drops. So either it all should be there and referenced as it was or it all should be removed. NZ Footballs Conscience^(talk) 22:04, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi NZ Footballs Conscience, this page is BLP of Anthony Hudson, not New Zealand national football team's page where the rankings of every window needs to be listed. If you would like to list and log the rankings of the national team please add to the appropriate sections under the New Zealand national football team's page. Hence, all sections on New Zealand's ranking have been appropriately relocated to the national team's page as you suggested. The section removed in the introduction about biggest movers in FIFA rankings however is milestone documented from governing body and wikipedia states that any incident that is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article. Also, I noticed that you made comments that didn't seem very civil towards other editors. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. Please assume good faith in your dealings with other editors.222.153.120.71 (talk) 22:46, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Again you can't have some without the other, why is that bit allowed to be talked about and not all the other rankings. Remove all or none. You aren't assuming good faith and want to turn it into a fluff piece.NZ Footballs Conscience^(talk) 22:57, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

It explains the reason for removing and reverting contents above, and assuming good faith means not making comments about other editor's intention of edits. You have been making multiple comments on editors in your comments and edit summaries which is not assuming good faith.Rumorattic (talk) 23:04, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

NZ Footballs Conscience, Milestone is a significant event or stage in the life, progress, development, or the like of a person, nation. Your edit is about the ranking change, not a milestone, which is suitable for New zealand national football team's page.Rumorattic (talk) 23:12, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

NZ hasn’t been recognised by FIFA as biggest mover so the milestones shouldn’t be there, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Rankings#Best_Mover_of_the_Year NZ Footballs Conscience^(talk) 23:25, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

COI/Recentism

NZ Footballs Conscience, the edits made are all neutral in tone and only stating significant events of the subject's BLP. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information before making subjective assumptions:

When to use

• Do not use this tag unless there are significant or substantial problems with the article's neutrality as a result of the contributor's involvement. Like the other tags, this tag is not meant to be a badge of shame or to "warn the reader" about the identities of the editors.
• Do not use this tag if you can quickly solve the problem, e.g., by removing peacocking and puffery or by reverting the blanking of well-sourced criticism.
• Do not use this tag to notify readers that an article appears to be partially or wholly autobiographical. If this is the case, please use the more-specific tag.
• Like the other neutrality-related tags, if you place this tag, you should promptly start a discussion on the article's talk page to explain what is non-neutral about the article. If you do not start this discussion, then any editor is justified in removing the tag without warning. Be careful not to violate the policy against WP:OUTING users who have not publicly self-disclosed their identities on the English Wikipedia.

When to remove

• This tag may be removed by editors who do not have a conflict of interest after the problem is resolved, if the problem is not explained on the article's talk page, and/or if no current attempts to resolve the problem can be found.

-Rumorattic (talk) 23:28, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Changed tags then. Clearly users close to subject keep making edits to turn into fluff piece and remove anything construed as negative from the pageNZ Footballs Conscience^(talk) 23:34, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 7 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Anthony Hudson (soccer). —usernamekiran (talk) 15:43, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

---

Anthony Hudson (football manager) → Anthony Hudson (soccer) – Based on FIFA nationality rules, birth place generally applies when the subject has not declared/represented a country internationally. Since for Hudson this would be the US, American English should apply here and the standard disambiguation would be "soccer." Seany91 (talk) 06:52, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 18:22, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom; alternatively move to Anthony Hudson (footballer, born 1981) as we do not use 'manager' for those who were originally players (as is the case here). GiantSnowman 18:25, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 19:20, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Anthony Hudson Coaching Players.jpg
• Anthony Hudson with his Rhodesian Ridgebacks.webp

You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:08, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Anthony Hudson on Field.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:54, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Anthony with Dogs.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:38, 15 May 2023 (UTC)