Talk:2021 Samoan general election

Data regarding Infobox

I see that the data for the ‘seats before the election’ in the infobox was removed. Would it not be useful to have that information along with the data regarding the seat count from the previous election? On the 2020 New Zealand election page, the main infobox includes both the data for the seats before election and the data for seats won from the previous election. I think it would be useful for people readers to know about the seat count prior to the election. For example, the Human Rights Protection Party won 35 seats in the 2016 Samoan election, but upon the dissolution of Parliament this party had 44 seats.

--N Panama 84534 (talk) 23:34, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

Personally I don't think so. The 'seats before' parameter seems to confuse people into thinking the seat change figure should use this instead of the previous election. However, it should be explained in the prose that this was the case, perhaps in a 'Background' section that details what happened since the previous election.

Also, I noticed you just changed the seats total for the HRPP to 25 in the results table, but left it as 24 in the infobox. The text in the results section mentions two independents but there is only one in the table... Cheers, Number 57 00:36, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Results

I've attached here the data I've used to determine the official results from this election. Couple of things to note:

• The Electoral Commission removed all information regarding the official results of this election on Facebook and on their website (after a revamp) but except on Twitter, for now. Thankfully the government website managed to keep it up.
• The official number of registered voters were provided in a Facebook post by the ruling HRPP here. It is important to note that all the figures in the said post are correct except for the deliberate attempt by the ruling party to take away votes from FAST and include it in their figure (the sum of the total votes in the HRPP post of both FAST and HRPP are the same as the sum that I've calculated on the spreadsheet).
• The invalid votes correspond to the total informal votes cast in every constituencies.

The spreadsheet. Kirill.alx (talk) 12:16, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

How is this not massively original research? The only cited source in the article doesn't even show party affiliations of the candidates from which a summation could be made (which itself would be OR). Mewulwe (talk) 09:33, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

@Mewulwe: Would the following links be sufficient, in your view, as sources for these results:

• Seat count
• Registered voters
• Candidate affiliations except for Vaa o Fonoti, Anomaa 1 and Aleipata Itupa i Luga
• Vaa o Fonoti candidates
• Anomaa 1 candidates
• Aleipata Itupa i Luga candidates
• List of candidates elected

If these do not meet the criteria, let me know and guide me. Kirill.alx (talk) 02:17, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

These are proper sources individually, but the combination is non-trivial, highly error-prone, and extremely tedious for anyone to verify. Alas, that kind of OR has become standard for many election results. Mewulwe (talk) 09:32, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Well if one has a single source for all of these, be my guest. Otherwise, we're stuck with what we've got. I've already mentioned on the very top the reasoning as to how I've ended up with these. Extremely tedious and highly error-prone as it may be, let's face it: not all countries have a single compiled election results like the Netherlands or some other countries out there. Kirill.alx (talk) 21:53, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested move back to 2021 Samoan general election

Since the Supreme Court has just cancelled the planned May 2021 election rerun, I've requested that this be moved back to 2021 Samoan general election. Jpatokal (talk) 03:58, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 18 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

---

April 2021 Samoan general election → 2021 Samoan general election – The Supreme Court has canceled previously planned May 2021 elections, meaning that there will only be one election this year Jpatokal (talk) 03:56, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). IdiotSavant (talk) 06:02, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Oppose: I'd suggest waiting for the appeals and petitions to be settled before doing that. But also, whoever forms a government is likely to have a wafer-thin majority. I'd hate to have to go through all the hassle of another move and fixing references, only to have to do it all again a few months later.--IdiotSavant (talk) 06:02, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

The decision came from the Supreme Court, so there are no further appeals possible. Since the May 2021 article can safely be deleted (it's quite clearly not going to happen), there's no point retaining the now useless "April" disambiguation in the name, and it's not our job to start forecasting the future of Samoan politics. Jpatokal (talk) 08:08, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Support, per Jpatokal's reasoning. Worse comes to worst, the name can be changed again. Tyrone Madera (talk) 23:37, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

• Comment I'd hold off until the latest round of appeals are finished, but if the decision is the second election is cancelled, it should be moved. It's not really much hassle to do this and can be done by WP:RM/TR or by asking an admin. Number 57 08:18, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

What appeals are you referring to? These decisions were made by the Supreme Court, which is the final authority, and the second elections were already cancelled. Jpatokal (talk) 02:00, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

At the time I wrote this, the decision could still be appealed to the Court of Appeal, which it apparently was. However, as the head of state has since revoked his proclamation opening parliament, it seems this is still not over. Number 57 11:31, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Number 57: At this point, there is no assurance that there will be another election, regardless of what happens. Power can still transition democratically, or it could be a straight coup. The old 21 May election date has already passed. We can revisit if a new election is proposed again.—Bagumba (talk) 13:41, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

• Comment Suggest waiting, but wouldn't oppose a bold change of the disambiguation page to a redirect. May be worth merging the May (now "Next") article with the April article as well, and changing its redirect target. CMD (talk) 09:24, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
• Comment As what Number 57 says. Kirill.alx (talk) 02:02, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
• Comment per Number 57 --Vacant0 (talk) 20:33, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose for now looking at the Supreme Court of Samoa it clearly states that its decision can be appealed to Court of Appeal of Samoa meaning the highest court in the county hasn’t ruled yet. It’s similar to how the New York Court of Appeals is actually a higher court than the New York Supreme Court. Also look more closely at the article is was specifically stated the the decision would be appealed. --65.92.163.98 (talk) 02:29, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

  The appeal was denied.[1]—Bagumba (talk) 13:35, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

• Move, ASAP rewrite the story/article as reallity is now, the article 2021 Samoan ... will always be needed to explain both the back story and constitutional issues addressed, people movements, parties formed etc and or final results or new election details. Plus it meets and matches the bulk of similar articles on similar topics. The Original Filfi (talk) 03:35, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support This seems to stem from the dated Next Samoan general election, which stated that an election was to be held on 21 May. It wasn't. At this point, we shouldn't wait because of the chance of a new election. The year 2021 alone is WP:PRECISE enough now. If circumstances should change, open a new RM.—Bagumba (talk) 11:21, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Numbers of members by party

As far as I can see there are only 50 constituencies. (These are the 48 shown here https://www.samoagovt.ws/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Declaration-of-Results-of-General-Election-2021_17042021.pdf plus the two urban seats that are not included in this list.) The members elected were FAST 24, HRPP 25, Independent 1. The HRPP was then awarded an additional female member and the independent joined the FAST. That makes FAST 25, HRPP 26. I don't see where the 52nd member comes from. Can someone clarify this? Constant Pedant (talk) 15:08, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

The breakdown of the elected members are as follows:

• 48 elected MPs (23 from HRPP, 24 from FAST and 1 Independent)
• 3 unopposed MPs (2 from HRPP and 1 from FAST)
• 1 additional MP for women (an HRPP MP, which was later rule unconstitutional by the courts)

Therefore, there were 52 MPs in total but after the courts ruled unconstitutional the 52nd seat, it returned to 51 MPs. The uncontested constituencies were Faleata 3 (held by Lealailepule Rimoni Aiafi of HRPP), Lotofaga (held by Fiame Naomi Mata'afa of FAST) and Lepa (held by the caretaker PM Tuilaepa). I should also note that this election no longer have the distinctions of 'urban constituencies' and 'territorial constituencies' as these had been abolished by virtue of a constitutional amendment in 2019. Therefore, all 51 constituencies are the same and elect one single MP. Hope these answers your question. Kirill.alx (talk) 15:28, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, that clarifies matters. I did not notice that Faleata 3 was missing from the list, not did I know that the urban constituencies had been abolished. So where do Samoans of non-Samoan ethnicity now get to vote? Constant Pedant (talk) 15:33, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

That I am unsure of. The current text of the constitution (Article 44 (1)) says the following:

Subject to the provisions of this Article, the Legislative Assembly shall consist of one member elected for each of 51 electoral constituencies having names, and comprising of villages or sub-villages as are prescribed from time to time by Act.

I presume that they vote normally like other native Samoans. Kirill.alx (talk) 16:10, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

But they are not "native Samoans," who are all deemed to be affiliated to their family village regardless of where they actually live. If I am a Chinese-Samoan merchant in Apia, I don't have a village affiliation, so where do I vote? I see one of the former urban members, Wayne Fong, was elected in a village constituency.

Anyway, this is my best reconstruction of the results, from the various imperfect sources. Constant Pedant (talk) 01:53, 30 May 2021 (UTC) http://psephos.adam-carr.net/countries/s/samoa/

@Constant Pedant: I wish I can help you answer that but I can't. You better ask someone from Samoa instead. Also, I hope you don't mind me asking how you got the total informal votes of 615, the HRPP votes of 49,233 and Independent votes of 4,029. It differs quite a bit from the calculations I've made and hope you can check whether both of our figures are right. You can find the one I did here. Kirill.alx (talk) 16:57, 30 May 2021 (UTC)