Talk:Army training regiment (United Kingdom)

Requested move 4 June 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Subtopics do not automatically make their parent topic use the same form of capitalization. The individual regiments can be capitalized as proper names, but unless evidence is provided that shows that "army training regiments" when referred to as a group are capitalized, this article should not be moved to a capitalized title. The source provided in the nom refers to "Army Training Regiment Winchester", which is a single regiment. See also WP:NCCAPS. (closed by non-admin page mover) Skarmory (talk • contribs) 23:07, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

---

Army training regiment → Army Training Regiments – Capitalise as Army Training Regiment is a proper noun and capitalised by the British Army as it is an official name of a place and unit "Army Training Regiment Grantham" etc and Regiments as there is more than one. It is not just an Army training regiment, it is The Army Training Regiment Grantham/Winchester. If that makes sense. Similar to how the Parachute Regiment is capitalised and not the Parachute regiment. It's a proper noun. https://www.army.mod.uk/who-we-are/our-schools-and-colleges/atr-winchester/ CptJohnMiller (talk) 15:45, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

• Comment after being move, the uncapitalized form should redirect to a generic training article -- 64.229.90.172 (talk) 09:04, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Oppose. We don’t capitalize names of articles about a type of military unit, because that is not a proper name. Army Training Regiment Grantham is the proper name of one of the army training regiments, just like Carrier Air Wing One is one of the carrier air wings.  —Michael Z. 19:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

In this case it looks like the specific organization that these army training regiments, units, centres, and other schools belong to is the Initial Training Group.  —Michael Z. 19:37, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about lol? This is an article about Army Training Regiments , the proper names, - Army Training Regiments Grantham, Winchester, and 1 and 2 Army Training Regiments based at Pirbright.. If this was an article about the Army's training regiments, it would include 11 Signal Regiment, 25 Training Regiment RLC, Defence Animal Training Regiment etc as these are Army training regiments. Respectfully, you're extremely incorrect CptJohnMiller (talk) 21:43, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

How about "A list of the British Army's Army Training Regiments" CptJohnMiller (talk) 22:33, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

In the Carrier Air Wing example you gave me, scroll to the bottom - there is a subheading "Active Carrier Air Wings and identification" and then a list of all air wings with the name Carrier Air Wing [1-17]. So your example actually supports my argument? CptJohnMiller (talk) 22:35, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose: Not a proper name. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:55, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

  What on earth are you talking about lol? This is an article about Army Training Regiments , the proper names, - Army Training Regiments Grantham, Winchester, and 1 and 2 Army Training Regiments based at Pirbright.. If this was an article about the Army's training regiments, it would include 11 Signal Regiment, 25 Training Regiment RLC, Defence Animal Training Regiment etc as these are Army training regiments. Respectfully, you're extremely incorrect CptJohnMiller (talk) 21:43, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

  How about "A list of the British Army's Army Training Regiments" CptJohnMiller (talk) 22:32, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Not a proper name and no need for pluralisation. The Army Training Regiment Grantham is a proper name. An army training regiment is not. The British Army capitalises almost everything, as do many other organisations. This is not a good reason for us to follow suit. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:14, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

  What on earth are you talking about lol? This is an article about Army Training Regiments , the proper names, - Army Training Regiments Grantham, Winchester, and 1 and 2 Army Training Regiments based at Pirbright.. If this was an article about the Army's training regiments, it would include 11 Signal Regiment, 25 Training Regiment RLC, Defence Animal Training Regiment etc as these are Army training regiments. Respectfully, you're extremely incorrect. CptJohnMiller (talk) 21:43, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

  How about "A list of the British Army's Army Training Regiments" CptJohnMiller (talk) 22:33, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

  No, I am not "extremely incorrect". Each individual regiment has a proper name. However, army training regiment when used generically is not a proper name (any more than engineer regiment, signal regiment, field regiment, infantry regiment or any other type of regiment is). This is how the English language works and this is how Wikipedia titles its articles. May I respectfully suggest that you get a bit more experience of Wikipedia before jumping in with both feet and telling us we're titling our articles wrongly. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:51, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

  You’re not understanding, this article is not about the Army’s regiments that are for training, or it would include other regiments such as 11 signal regiment etc (which is the training regiment for signals). this is a list of all British Army regiments that are called Army Training Regiment ___. The official name is the Army Training Regiment. Then the location comes after, the location is the not the official name. There are four Army Training Regiments. From what I can see on Wikipedia, this should be capitalised; List of Royal Artillery batteries aswell as the example I was given above for the Carrier Air Wing , - there is a subheading "Active Carrier Air Wings and identification" and then a list of all air wings with the name Carrier Air Wing [1-17]. You’ll grasp it eventually 2A00:23C6:4D8C:6201:903A:681A:5921:6991 (talk) 11:30, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

  “Current Batteries of the Royal Regiment of Artillery” 2A00:23C6:4D8C:6201:903A:681A:5921:6991 (talk) 12:10, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, I am understanding. I just don't agree with you. And Wikipedia consensus backs me up. The examples you give are irrelevant to article titling and should be altered in any case. Try to avoid being patronising. It does you no favours. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:35, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

  Why is Parachute Regiment capitalised but not Army Training Regiment? They're both names of regiments CptJohnMiller (talk) 23:38, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

  Because the Parachute Regiment is a single, unique entity and therefore is a proper name. Whereas an army training regiment refers to one several regiments and therefore is not. If there was a single entity called the Army Training Regiment then that would be a proper name, but there is not (although the 1st Army Training Regiment, 2nd Army Training Regiment, etc, are proper names). -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:59, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

  You're incorrect and have no clue about the military but that's fine, not sure why you're gatekeeping - Army training regiment locations (United Kingdom) - whats wrong with this? Are you saying 'Army training regiment' is better than Army training regiment locations (United Kingdom)? CptJohnMiller (talk) 13:28, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

  Be careful about making statements like "...have no clue about the military". Necrothesp writes extensively and very competently on military history and according to his user page, is a former member of the British Army. So, you are certainly incorrect on that matter. And I agree with him that there is no such thing as the Army Training Regiment. Dormskirk (talk) 13:45, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

  I disagree that he is a former soldier. CptJohnMiller (talk) 13:51, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

  You need to read Assume Good Faith; at best, you have no basis for assuming that Necrothesp is being untruthful, and at worst Necrothesp could take that claim as a personal attack. Dormskirk (talk) 13:57, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

  This individual clearly does not like being disagreed with. Jumps into a stylistic discussion with no experience of Wikipedia and baselessly accuses someone with long experience of having no clue about a subject he has written about extensively. Not worth any further debate, I think. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:09, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

• Regardless off the outcome of this RM, this article should be preemptively disambiguated (United Kingdom), IAW wp:MILMOS#UNITNAME. It is highly likely that another country will have an army training regiment, and the UK version is hardly the primary topic. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:14, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
  • Agree with this. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:13, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I completely forgot about preemptively disambiguating the title – I will do that now, as there's a loose consensus for it. Feel free to revert and/or start a new discussion on the preemptive disambiguation if you disagree. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 23:13, 11 June 2023 (UTC)