Talk:Ashkali and Balkan Egyptians

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Ashkali and Balkan Egyptians. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160109071707/http://ashkali.org/ to http://www.ashkali.org/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:01, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

If they live in Croatia wouldn’t they speak Croatian, and if they are in serbia wouldn’t they speak serbian, as well in Montenegro that’s simple logic Gjondeda (talk) 20:21, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Separate Wikipedia page for the Balkan Egyptians

Why isn’t there a separate Wikipedia page for the Balkan Egyptians? I believe that by grouping both communities together confusion will arise. I’ve seen some sources referring to them as being the same ethnicity, when they’re not. The Ashkali, found only in Kosovo, are Albanian speaking Romani. The Balkan Egyptians, on the other hand, who live mostly in Albania, are of Egyptian origin. Most Balkan Egyptians in Albania might not even have heard about the Ashkali before. Furthermore both groups have their own distinct histories and it’s confusing to have two separate sources of information, about two people groups, in one single page. Therefore I would kindly request a change, if possible. Udhakjx (talk) 09:29, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Not Egyptians at all..

Let me just say this as an actual Egyptian that was born and raised in Egypt. This article should be completely changed, and have the word “Egyptians” removed, because these people are not Egyptian. They are Gypsies that came to the Balkan from Northern India. They would claim they are Egyptians when they arrive in Europe so that they receive better treatment from the Europeans, who were hostile towards them. All these theories about Egyptians going to the Balkans in Antiquity and the Middle Ages are completely false and a total fabrication. Sorry, you are not Egyptian. You are Roma, or a Gypsie. Not even closely related to an Egyptian or any Middle Eastern or North African country. Stop believing these lies and stop spreading them. Thank you. I rest my case. 142.118.27.138 (talk) 17:28, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

But you, you made such statemants, and this is ok?

Let this People believe what they want...this is not your Buisness to say what they are and what not. ok?

They are Balkan Egyptians and Ashkali and not roma. Lom-Dom-Rom (talk) 16:54, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Separate in Serbian wiki, but grouped together in the English

It makes very little sense! 46.235.98.131 (talk) 04:28, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Association with the Roma

Hi. Could someone please make this article more clear and better referenced regarding any possible relation between the Ashkali and the Roma as this is a very contentious point. In addition, there is the template {{Romani diaspora}} at the end of this article. The template uses orange color, which makes it particularly visible among the navigation templates that are otherwise blue, and I don't consider it ok to make it so prominent in this context. It may confer a certain stigma, particularly as this ethnic group refuses to be associated with the Roma. --TadejM ^{my talk} 09:50, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I have implemented the change to the template as per Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Templates#Template:Romani diaspora. --TadejM ^{my talk} 09:38, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

@TadejM, The question is, who designates the Ashkali and Balkan Egyptians as part of the Roma? the answer: non roma who do that, and roma groups. The Ashkalia and Balkan Egyptians are so far removed from the Roma culture and language. If two peoples do not consider themselves as Roma, others cannot simply call them Roma. The Ashkaelia and Balkan Egyptians are not part of international Roma associations. Ashkali-Balkan Egypt (talk) 15:00, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

@TadejM,

They have their own parties and associations that have nothing to do with the Roma associations.

https://kosovapress.com/en/tag/the-ashkali-party-for-integration/

https://president-ksgov.net/en/news/president-thaci-is-awarded-an-appreciation-by-the-representatives-of-the-egyptian-community-in-kosovo

https://www.dailynewsegypt.com/2018/03/12/balkan-egyptians-homeland-belong/

http://www.egjiptianet.de/

Ashkali-Balkan Egypt (talk) 15:14, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Ashkali-Balkan Egypt. Thank you for providing this.

I have found a nice scholarly reference that seems to be aligned with your view. Perhaps you could check it at doi 10.3828/rs.2013.2 via Sci-Hub.

It includes the following statement: "We could disprove the general assumption that Egyptians and Ashkali in Kosovo first identified as Roma and then became Egyptians and Ashkali, although we know examples of Ashkali and Egyptians in Serbia who considered themselves Roma for some time and then decided for Ashkali or Egyptian."

Here is another article.

I'll revise the article. --TadejM ^{my talk} 21:25, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

@TadejM, I don't like the whole article, because Ashkali and Balkan Egyptians are in one page.

In other Wikipedia languages ​​both have spereate pages, also this claim, that some Ashkali speak Romani, that's nonsense. I don't know a single Ashkali who speaks Romani. The flag of the Balkan Egyptians is also missing. Ashkali-Balkan Egypt https://www.fotw.info/flags/mk_eg.html#fla

(talk) 10:56, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@User:Ashkali-Balkan Egypt

I don't object to you removing the claim that some Ashkali speak Romani if this is not true. I don't consider the source supporting this claim very trustworthy.

On the other hand, I'm not very fond of separating the article into two, as per the cited source (Lichnofsky, C. (2013). AshkaLi and Egyptians in Kosovo: New ethnic identifications as a resuLt of excLusion during nationalist vioLence from 1990 tiLL 2010. Romani Studies, 23(1), 29-60. doi:10.3828/rs.2013.2):

I learnt that the boundaries between Roma on one hand and Ashkali/ Egyptians, on the other, are quite clear. The latter have a different history of ethnic affiliation in Kosovo and much more in common with the Albanian majority. The difference between Ashkali and Egyptian, though, is not that obvious, neither for the Albanian majority and politicians nor for protagonists of the communities themselves. Both groups refer to Muslim, Albanian speaking and people labelled as ‘Gypsy’. Usually, they regard the other community as part of theirs.

As to the missing flag or other content, feel welcome to add it as long as it is reliably sourced. --TadejM ^{my talk} 11:54, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

@TadejM, I think this is an interesting link. From the perspective of the Ashkali.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232803734_History_of_Ashkali_identity Ashkali-Balkan Egypt (talk) 13:36, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

and of the Balkan Egyptian

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232803106_History_of_Balkan_Egyptians

https://m.facebook.com/BalkanEgyptians/photos/historia-%C3%ABsht%C3%AB-dhe-mbet%C3%ABt-histori/1002593006470869/

Ashkali-Balkan Egypt (talk) 13:37, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

ethnic attack

@TadejM,

Unfortunately I will leave english wikipedia, I think it's better that way, because I have been attacked by a user who is of kalderash romani-armenian descent. I see the Non Romani and Romani groups are too strongly represented here, they do not accept the statements and organizations and own sources of the Ashkalia and Balkan Egyptians. I think, the Ashkali and Balkan Egyptian political parties must intervene to correct these false statements here in Wikipedia against the ashkali and balkan egyptians, made by this Romani and non-Romani people. Eventually, when genetic studies are available, this slander will stop. A lot false claims is written here on Wikiedpia, everyone can change it. I can't do anything about it. All of these sources written against the Ashkalia and Balkan Egyptians Identity are from non-Romani or Romani hands. This Romani and Non Romani people doesnt accepted the history of Ashkali and Balkan Egyptians, and malde false claims about and wrote something against it and published it, then people take this as a source on wikipedia. And if persons who are Ashkali or Balkan Egjiptian of origin give other sources that are not accepted and got attacked. That's a joke. I see this Kalderash Romani-Armenian user who attacked me, haven't delved into the history of the Ashkalia and Balkan Egyptians. Both groups distance themselves from the Romani. Both have their own historical origins and own identity, but the romani and many non-romani do not accept it. Ashkalia and Balkan Egyptians do not resemble Romani at all. I wonder why these people insist that the Ashkaelia and Balkan Egyptians be Romani? What's in it for them? Ashkali-Balkan Egypt (talk) 11:27, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Ashkali-Balkan Egypt. It's a pity that you feel pressured to leave Wikipedia. I think we have done some good work on this article. If there have been personal attacks or hate speech, you should rather report them at WP:ANI. --TadejM ^{my talk} 11:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes we have.

But the Romani, and many non-Romani, are attacking too strongly against the Ashkalia and Balkan Egyptian communities.

It sucks, Constantly justifying what you are and what you aren't, nowadays that's unbelievable. Should they write what they want. The Ashkalia and Balkan Egyptians know they are not Romani and never was and never will be. Neither official nor unofficial. They have their own political parties, their own associations, their own flags. Ashkalia and Balkan Egyptians have nothing to do with the Romani either culturally, linguistically or otherwise. But the Romani don't want to accept that and several of her non-Romani friends. That's the whole dilemma.

Take care. Thank you for contributing to the article. There are good people like you too. Zoti te bekofte me shume dashuri dhe shendet (My God bless you with love and health). Ashkali-Balkan Egypt (talk) 12:00, 12 April 2023 (UTC)