Talk:Asian immigrants to Sweden

Jjjjjjdddddd (talk) 22:48, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Should the page be preserved or removed?

I'm lost.Xx236 (talk) 10:05, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Sweden's definition of "Asia"

@AuH2ORepublican: I have no clue why you claimed that I'm changing this article to match my "POV" that "West Asians are not white". You keep accusing my "POV", but I think you should look at your own point of view, because my change in edits on this page had nothing to do with whether West Asians are considered part of the arbitrary socially constructed idea of "whiteness". Anyways, according to the Swedish census statistics, "Asian" means just about everyone from the Asian continent. Not every country excludes West Asians from their definition of "Asia", in fact there was a problem a few years ago because users kept changing Canada's Asian Canadian definition by removing certain Asian groups. Even though Canada's statistics consider all people from the Asian continent as being "Asian". I'm adding screenshots of the sources from Imgur to further cement my points. Numbers are mainly taken from Statistics Sweden or SCB. Since several sources are PDFs, the pages I cite are the pages found on the file, not the one on the PDF page viewer.

Did you actually read the source (I'm assuming this one) I posted? On pages 39-40, you'll see a page titled "Asien or "Asia". It does mentions West Asians as being Asian immigrants and how many immigrants came from "Turkiet" (Turkey), "Syrien" (Syria), "Irak" (Iraq) and the "Libaneser" (Lebanese). In fact, at the time that this was published, it states that Iraqis were the largest Asian immigrant group, though that has changed because of the Syrian refugee crisis in recent years. See the quote: "Irakierna utgör nu den största invandrargruppen från Asien", or in English, its basically saying that at the time Iraqis were the largest Asian immigrant group. On the full version of the source I just mentioned, on page 24,[1] it talks about many immigrants coming from Asia and South America, specifically Turkey, Iran, Lebanon and Syria for Asia and for South America, Chile. (In Swedish: "Invandrarna kom från Asien och Sydamerika ... Förtryck och inbördeskrig låg bakom migrationen från länder som Turkiet, Iran, Libanon och Syrien. Juntans maktövertagande i Chile år 1973 tvingade chilenare på flykt")

Here's another quote from Statistics Sweden[2]: "Just over one in three of the circular migrants were born in Asia. Among these persons, the most common countries of birth were Iraq, India and Iran". On the Statistics Sweden website, you can find an Excel file on the number of adoptions by their country of origin from 2011 to 2020. In the Asia section, you can see Iran and Georgia considered as part of "Asia".[3]

I don't where users that contributed to the page got the exact breakdown of the Asian regions, but when I checked the Statistics Sweden website, as of 2020, there is 798,328 Asian-born people in Sweden.[4] And that is why I updated/changed the numbers in the article. I also have checked the alleged 2017 results, with Reference #2 on the page,[5] which was retrieved on 4 March 2018. This source cites a Statistics Sweden page titled "Foreign-born persons living in Sweden - Population by country of birth, age and sex. Year 2000 - 2017". Whatever user entered down the alleged total number was 245,409 in 2017. Yet the number I saw ([6]) when I checked the Stats Sweden graph for the 2017 population of Asian-born people in Sweden, showed 357,703 men and 339,414 women who were born in Asia residing in Sweden. Total that up and you get 697,117 people who were born in Asia now in Sweden. Not the approximately 250K total presented in the page.

If you go to the Statistics Sweden website and look at how much people in Sweden were Asian-born in 2009, they list a number of 388,037.[7] Here is an archive of Sweden's 2009 Population Stats tables.[8] As you can see, on page 22, in the 2009 column at the far right of the page,[9] the page lists the exact same number for "Asian-born" people in 2009 at it did in the Stats Sweden website, with 338,037 of Sweden's population stating that were born in Asia. What's more, the 2009 source I provided has an appendix for the countries and continents on page 460. From Armenia to Lebanon to Iraq to Iran to Palestine to India to Israel and Syria, and so on, it seems like every count in Asia is counted.[10][11] The only inconsistent country seems to be Turkey. In the Statistics Sweden PDF source in my second paragraph, immigrants from Turkey were considered immigrants from "Asia", but in the official estimates for foreign-born populations, Turkey is included as part of "Europe", as one of the non-27 EU countries at the time and a non-Nordic country.[12] They're both from "Scb.se" website, or the Statistics Sweden website. So that's the only country I'm not sure about.

Statista has a page on number of immigrants from Asia living in Sweden 2020 by countries of birth.[13] And the top 10 match up with the numbers I got looking at Statistics Sweden's estimates.

I have no clue which user decided to exclude West Asians from Sweden's Asian population. But it seems to me that you reverted my edits either because of spite or simply because you think that every country in the world excludes West Asians as being "Asian". There is no need for a "consensus", because the sources are pretty clear on what Sweden counts as "Asian". This is about Sweden, not the United States, or Canada or the United Kingdom, etc. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 20:04, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

@Clear Looking Glass: It would be more believable for you to claim that your lumping of West Asians into "Asians" is NPOV and has nothing to do with your opinion that West Asians aren't white had you not spent the past couple of weeks editing Wikipedia articles to remove references to West Asians as being white and to add them as examples of "persons of color."

As for the issue at hand, the question isn't what a country in Asia is (transcontinental countries notwithstanding, there is general agreement among geographers on the continent's boundaries), but what an "Asian" is. The word "Asian," when used in a racial context (not in a geographic one), does not mean "having immigrated from a country that within the continent of Asia"; it means someone who descends from the native populations of East Asia or South Asia. As Dictionary.com states in its "Usage Note" for the word "Asian," "The people of the Middle or Near East and Polynesia are not referred to as Asian."

Someone from San Francisco with Chinese ancestry who moved to Sweden would be "an Asian immigrant to Sweden" even though he would have emigrated from America, not from Asia. Conversely, a woman of sub-Saharan African descent who was born and raised in Japan would not be "an Asian immigrant to Sweden" if she moved to Sweden. And someone who descends from the native peoples of West Asia (including Lebanese, Iraqis, Jews, Afghans, etc.) is not "an Asian immigrant to Sweden." Thus, looking at Swedish data as to the countries from which people have immigrated to Sweden does not tell you how many Asians immigrated there, much less constitute a classification of Syrians, Armenians, Jordanians, Iranians, etc. as "Asians." The government of Sweden isn't saying that those immigrants are "Asian"; it's saying that they immigrated from countries in Asia (and deeming Turkey to be in Europe).

Maybe you'd prefer that the article have a different scope, and that it be titled, and about, "Immigrants to Sweden from countries in Asia." But that's a different article, covering a different topic. If you wish to change the article's title and scope, discuss it in the Talk page and obtain a consensus. AuH2ORepublican (talk) 20:45, 28 July 2021 (UTC)