Talk:Assam/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

First comments

Please stop editing section "Origin of name". We should resolve the issues first and try to arrive at a consensus. If not, we will have to adopt other dispute resolution mechanisms. In the meantime, I have reverted to the Feb 25, 2005 version. I shall set up another page where these issues will be discussed separately. Probably here Talk:Assam/OriginDisputeResolution Chaipau 20:27, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

i removed portions which were copied from [1] Kingturtle 08:57 May 1, 2003 (UTC)

The expanded portion on Bihu can be deleted since Bihu has an individual entry. Chaipau 01:34, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Reason for NPOV tag

I have put a NPOV tag on this article because the Different Interpretation section seems very pov to me. Example:

This was because the local Assamese people did not have the aptitude for hard work. They lived in a paradise where no work was required to grow their food since the land was so fertile. Therefore they grew lazy and fat and were averse to hard work.

I am not knowledgeable about this topic, so I'll refrain from editing it myself, but maybe someone who is familiar with this can have a look at it and separate facts from opinion. The section also needs some spelling/style revisions, I think. Sietse 11:56, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

• The section has been NPOV-ized.

Thanks! That's a lot better. Sietse 10:53, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Disputed

This is a request to user connecting from 65.38.226.42, 65.38.226.56 and other IP addresses.

The paragraph on assama needs a reference. The paragraph is:

The word “assama” was used during the time while Bhaskarvarman ruled Kamarupa. Then the present upper Assam used to emit poisonous gasses and uninhabitable. To this land, some of the Kamrupi criminals escaped during those days in order to avoid punishment. The Chinese traveler Xuensang wrote about it in his travel note. Those people were also referred “assama” or "asama";, and Xuensang not traveling back to China through this route was because he was worried about getting attacked by “assama” people.“assama” or “asama” in Kamrupi can also mean one who is not compared with.

Please provide the reference in which assama is used in the context of an escaped convict during Bhaskarvarman's time. Is it a Sanskrit or Assamese word? The reference that the Chinese traveller did not travel to China via Assam for fear of these assamas is also needed. There are references of a robust trade between Kamrupa and China at that time, and Bhaskarvarman is said to have mentioned a Chinese song which was popular in Kamrupa at that time (Suniti Kumar Chatterjee). Why would Xuanzang not take this well travelled trade route if he wanted to get back to China?

The Assamese word for a convict is assami with roots in the Persian language, according to Assamese dictionaries (Chandra Kanta Abhidhan). The text that mentioned this was deleted. To build up a good page and make it into a featured article, please follow the guidelines given in Wikipedia:NPOV_tutorial and Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Examples.

Chaipau 23:08, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Deleting assami was good job because assami and assama are two different words. In assama, /s/ and /s/ forms a conjunct though you may pronounce it as asama.

Please refrain from deleting or adding stuff to this article. I do not want an edit war on this article. I made this request earlier. Chaipau 02:10, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Additional disputed paragaph

You have not replied to the earlier dispute. Instead you have edited added another problematic paragraph.

Anthera Assama was discovered long before the Yandabu Accord, and assama here implies unequal or not comparable with – assama was chosen as part of the scientific name because the silkworm can only live in the climate of foothills of Eastern Himalayas.

First, the sentence is factually not correct. The earliest nomenclature of the Muga silkworm is from 1837 [2], more than 10 years after the Treaty of Yandaboo. Second, the date of Yandaboo Treaty is not important because it isn't likely that the British did not have a name for Assam before the treaty was signed. Third, assama is indeed "unequal", but that does not mean the name of Assam comes from assama. Please give reference to your claim that the Muga silkworm is named after the Sanskrit word for unequal because it can survive only in the foothills of the Himalayas (which is also untrue because the Muga silkworm provides a thriving sericulture business today as well as it did in the past in the Brahmaputra valley, which is almost at sea-level).

Kindly refrain from adding anything to the article before this dispute is settled.

Chaipau 06:38, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Commenting out some portion of text in origine of name=

In spite of Chaipau's warning I have commented out (have not deleted, the editors can still see & use the commented text) portion of origine of name because I felt that this kind of dispute on the article page looks very bad. I am sorry if I have hurt anyone's feelings in the process. If you guys think I am right, let it stay that way. If you think I am wrong, go ahead and undo my editings, I won't mind and will take it sportingly. Prabhakar 07:03, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

My opinion is that you should not have done that, and would appreciate it if you put the same back

Please create a login and sign your modifications whenever you do any more modifications. I have seen some other user also made such anonymous changes. It establishes credibility and creates a good environment for discussion.

Prabhakar 05:32, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Motto - Land of the Red River and Blue Hills

What is the source of reference for this motto?

(To the best of my knowledge, a U.S. national by name Jugal Kalita introduced this motto for the first time in a website called assam.org that he owns. There were neither historic-evidences nor records for this motto so I edited and deleted the same.)

Jai Aai Asom – this motto has been since 1950 very popular and popularized by the students of Assam, a very Assamese motto without any foreign hand.

Assama or Asama means criminal/sinner/weird and not comparable with

Reference 1 Kamrupi Bhagavad Puran

Reference 2 Ja Mo Lo Pho – by Shuen Shang Xuanzan(Kamarupa – by Huen Tsang)

asama or assama – Kamrupi meaning would be weird or not compared with. This word had never been used in Kamrupi scriptures to represent a land, but had been used to represent a specific class of people not caste (see reference 1). These people were not Ahom either but weird/sinner according to the scripture, and anybody claiming them Ahom would do a big mistake demonstrating lake of knowledge.

The Bhagavad Puran is obviously a big piece of work. Could you tell us which specific use you are refering to here? Also, I am not aware of a Kamrupi Bhagavad Puran. Could you please let us know which translation you are refering to. Chaipau 19:58, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Further, please sign your entries in this page using 4 tildas. Chaipau 19:58, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Both Chinese and Japanese write foreign name using their own art. Ja Mo Lo Pho is the mane one will find in original scripture or travel note that is preserved in a shrine in China. The Chinese do not see the same as travel note but see as Holy Scripture.

Even Kamrupi villagers use the word asama/assama for the weird context, also the other not comparable with, as in the reference 1 “Kamrupi Bhagavad Puran”. As I stated, no Kamrupi scriptures used this word to represent the land.

The present use of a similar sounding word is irrelevant, since the word "Assam" used to donote the land, kingdom or people is many hundred years old. If you claim this is not the origin of the word Assam, then I do not see how this is relevant at all. Chaipau 19:58, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Ahom is not a many hundred years old phenomenon, it is not even a thousand year old issue.

Assamese words are misspelled and mispronounced Kamrupi words. Kamrupi is a dieing language while Kamrup is a Lost Kingdom. The modern Assamese language is the dialect of Ahom Kindom. A good and practical name for this dialect should be Ahomese. No Kamrupi scriptures were written in this dialect.

Antheraea assamensis

Foothills of Eastern Himalayas – is a big area it goes all the way to present Bangladesh. In fact places like Rangpur/Noihati presently in Bangladesh were in Kamrup.

The Brahmaputra valley is not almost at sea-level. The valley is very inclined land but Brahmaputra ends almost at sea-level.

Anthera Assama does not live in a climate other than Foothills of Eastern Himalayas, according to a biologist, if not genetically engineered. This fact should be documented somewhere. That is the reasion why it got Sanskrit name in part, i.e., assama.

If it is documented somewhere that the word assama in Antheraea assama is from the Sanskrit word, please provide it here. According to my research, the first use of the Latin name for the Muga silkworm is from 1837 (as Antheraea assamensis Helfer, 1837; J. Asiat. Soc. Bengal, 6: 43). assamensis is latin for "of Assam". Therefore, it is nearly certain that the name is based on the name of the land, not the other way round.

Further, the land of the Ahoms have been called "Assam" long before the Muga silkworm was named. Some of the first accounts of the land came from travellers who travelled with Mir Jhumla during his invasion of Assam in 1663. Thomas Bowrey writes about Mir Jhumla: "They lost the best of Nabobs, the Kingdome of Acham, and, by consequence, many large priviledges" (Bowrey, Thomas, A Geographical Account of Countries around Bay of Bengal, ed Temple, R. C., Haklyut Society's Publications). Further, an account of Mir Jhumla's expedition can be found in Tavernier's "Travels in India", published in 1676. He uses the spelling "Assen" for Assam in the French original. The official chronicler of Mir Jhumla too calls the place "Asam" (The Indian Antiquary, July 1887, pp222-226)

Formal contact of between the East India Company and the Ahom kingdom was established in the context of the Moamoria Revolt, and has been documented in "Ango-Assamese Relations 1771-1826" (S. K. Bhuyan). In this account, the British have consistently referred to "Assam" and "Assamese".

We should sort these issues out so that we may remove the disputed tag and put forward the article for featured status. Thanks.

Chaipau 19:58, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

* In order to equate Ahom equals asama you would need to discover the same in the volumes of scriptures called buranji that Ahom people wrote over hundreds of years. Please do not bring arguments what bongals tell for Ahom - these are irrelevant

It is not necessary to find the name in the Buranjis. It is already known that the epithet Asam, from which the modern term Ahom was formed, was given to the Ahom by the indigenous people. Your objection is infructuous. The dominant view among scholars is that the word Assam is associated with the Ahoms. Here is an entry from Satyendra Nath Sarma's Assamese Literature, Harrassowitz, Wiesbaden, 1976.

While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred to as Āsām, Āsam and sometimes as Acam by the indigenous people of the country. The modern Assamese word Āhom by which the Tai people are known is derived from Āsām or Āsam. The epithet applied to the Shan conquerors was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and thus the name Kāmarūpa was replaced by Āsām, which ultimately took the Sanskritized form Asama, meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven" [Banikanta Kakati: Assamese: Its Formation and Development, p2]

The quote is from the second paragraph of Chapter 1. As you can, this idea was first propounded by Banikanta Kakati (his PhD thesis was submitted in 1935), and subsequently most scholar have accepted this thesis. Wikipedia should have mention of alternative theories, but your objections are infructuous as far as this issue is concerned. You cannot demand a yardstick here which most scholars have rejected. Chaipau 16:49, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Dr Banikanta Kakati was a Kamrupi man by the way. He must have done so in order to hide a resentment as because some Ahom wanted to claim the name of the state as because of there presence in Eastern Assam. But you might read a book by Bisweshwar Hazarika printed sometimes during 1850's (from my memory hole) -- a Ahom man and questioned in that book on Asama and Asamiya. Kurmaa 19:13, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hi Kurmaa, welcome to our discussion. I feel it does not serve any purpose to second guess the intentions of scholars. It is best to discuss their contributions on their merits. Kakati may be a Kamrupi; but for us, that is not important. What is important is that he produced work of a very high caliber, which people and scholars have accepted. It is also important to give opposing views/work a space; again, on their merit. I hope we can carry on with this discussion in this spirit and produce an entry on Assam that is highly regarded in the Wikipedia community and useful to serious readers. Setting our pet theories against each other will unfortunately not help us. Chaipau 15:14, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• If Dr Banikanta Kakati has written in his work that "Assam was derived from Ahom" out of fear, than this is is a serious matter! Is it true? A number of scholars had based their works on Dr Kakati's work. If this is true, then all these works are standing on thin air!
• Kurma is Kamrupi, I am Jorhatia, he is Nalbaria, she is Barpetia, amuk is Ahom, tamuk is Kachari.... Banikanta Kakati is "Kamrupi", Debakanta Barua is "Kalangparia".... may I ask who is Assamese?.

Let us not ask these questions---or bring them up. Let us just look at the arguments on their individual merits. Chaipau 15:35, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Prabhakar 09:54, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

By the way, Ahom is not a modern word as it can be traced in Ahom buranji - ancient scriptures written by Ahom, a type of chronicle. What Banikanta Kakati had presented was his own research based on his Hh.D. work. So please search for knowledge in the buranji scriptures first.

You already said that. And I have already shown how your assertion is meaningless. Chaipau 21:30, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hello Chaipau

You would need to realize that the outsiders created lot of names, e.g., India, Hindu, Assam, etc.

What am I trying to tell?

I am trying to tell that the Kamrupi scriptures have sloka that uses the word asama or assama or asom -- for your information, all three Roman spellings, i.e., asama or assama or asom, have one native spelling in Kamrupi scripts; the word is used for two meanings one weird/sinner and the other not comparable with. The Kamrupi speakers still use/speak this word for both meanings, and pronounced Sanskrit in Kamrupi. But present name Asom is not pronounced Sanskrit by Kamrupi speakers.

It might be so, but that is irrelevant in the context of this Wikipedia. Please do not bring in the fruits of your original research here. This is not the place for it (Wikipedia:No_original_research). Anyway, this is a theory most likely brought out by people who have racial prejudices against the Ahoms. Because it is impossible that a set of kings who ruled Assam for 600 years would accept a derogatory term to call themselves. The Ahoms did accept this appelation. Moreover I have not come across this in any academic work. Therefore, to keep Wikipedia racially un-prejudiced, this reference should be removed.

Chaipau 14:36, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Please do not use the phrases like "racially un-prejudiced" as an excuse to support you.

If you do not have an acceptable reference for your mention here in a scholarly reference, please remove it. Please do not insert your own unverified research in Wikipedia, especially if it is racially prejudiced. This is the second request. Chaipau 17:26, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Why do you want to equate Ahom to asama?
• Ahom wrote volumes of scriptures called buranji over hundred of years documenting their account. In those scriptures why din't the Ahom people call themselves asama?
• Please go find in those buranji scriptures that said Ahom equals asama and tell so we all learn about it in order to help close this chapter.
• Have you understood what needs to be done in order to equate Ahom equals asama?

Your references were all in English written by (probably) Bengali-assisted. We should try to find the original writing in order to compare the translation. I am confident to come up with something similar sindhu to hindu and indu to India.

Your assertion is not correct. I mentioned the Mir Jhumla's chronicler who called the kingdom Asam, which predates the English/French references I have given. Clearly, the English and French picked it up from the Mughals, not the other way around. But there are references in the Assamese Bhagavad, translated by Sankardeva, where he calls the country "Asam Muluk", which is probably the first reference to Assam by that name. This reference is widely quoted in all academic works that I have come across. This is also another instance of how the word Asam could not have been used in the "weird/sinner" context you mention.

Chaipau 14:36, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• There is no scripture called Assamese Bhagavad; but Vaishnava saint Sankaradeva composed hymens of a few sections of the Kamrupi Vhagavad Puran while the whole scripture is a work of over twelve Vaishnava scholars - one may be questioned on plagiarism for messing up on such matter. In general, Vaishnava people will not be happy on such plagiarism as because guru Sankaradeva Himself asked to credit people for their excellence and not to give credit to Him for something He did not do.

• It is not "Muluk" but maluka, also it is not "Asam" but asama. One needs to read the whole sloka in order to explore the meaning, both words do not go together as "asama maluka" for the meaning that Chaipau had created. In brief, he had used above double quoted two words, i.e., "Asam Muluk", from a sloka of 30 words length then he created his own meaning and came to debate with someone born Kamrupi :)

• Here it appears that Chaipau is qualified to be called maluka - the Kamrupi meaning :) because he did not read the whole sloka in the scripture in order to explore the correct meaning but put forward misleading and lie.

• What is maluka in Kamrupi?
• One who is further down than a murukha here murukha is Kamrupi word!

• • I strongly protest the use of such expletives on a co-contributor (murukha = idiot). I ask you to remove it immediately. Chaipau 17:59, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • I have already protested to this by removing the line. But the person who wrote it is so adament to insult co-authors that he re-inserted the line, with the lines "Did you read... . What made you delete an example....." (below). - Prabhakar 07:32, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Any person who tries to contribute to this discussion must read Wikipedia:Wikiquette and Wikipedia:Civility first. Please don't make assamese (or kamrupi, whatever) people laughingstock to the world. Especially, no personnel attacks please. We all are here for a good cause. Wikipedia has numourous ways to stop vandels editing it. Prabhakar 07:10, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Did you read the same? What made you to delete an example?
• Please do not use the phrase "personal attack" as an excuse to delete useful examples from the discussions.

• Why do you claim yourself idiot Chaipau?
• Why don't you try to learn first what would be the meaning of murukha?
• And Prabhakar where did you learn to talk to like that?
• Is that the Hemkosh your source of knowledge in Kamrupi?

• Here is a clip from Vaishnava devotional song murukha madhave bole composed by Madhavadeva.

• Do you both see/understand what could be the meaning of murukha?

• My suggestion is that instead of jumping into conclusions, you both better go spent some time in Kamrupi villages in order to learn something. Should you not go learn and continue to redefine something that you think, what would you think a reader would assume you two might be?

• I see the quoted example a nit one and it may be made available to all wikipidia contributors.

• Kurmaa 19:13, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No Kamrupi scriptures called the land Asom/Asama/Assama/Assam/ because it was part of Kamrup. The Ahom people wrote their History. Should we open their original History scripture, we see they too did not refer the lend Asom although we would find Asom in modern printed Ahome history book. It is something like why they call themself Hindu although it is not a Sanskrit word nor it has any spiritual connection. Because the outsiders called/documented so.

Which is again not true. Sankardeva's Bhagavad mentions "Asam muluk".

Chaipau 14:36, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Reade above to discover what is true!

Did I miss something there in yester year Ahom history scripts? -- I would like to see a reference so I correct myself.

Please see above. Chaipau 14:36, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Reade above to discover what is true!
• Chaipau is not the only one to redefined Kamrupi words' meanings. This had happened in modern Assamese, in some cases terrible, e.g., "toila nun naai suda byanjan ene shaad, binaa jaru bandha kibaa hari hawa sadme ashah" this was composed by Vaishnava philosopher Mahendrakandali in order to compliment Sankaradeva for his first composition of hari naam - Mahendrakandali trained Sankaradeva in present undivided Kamrup in a place called Routa. Here nun is the word that got mutilated in modern Assamese, its Kamrupi meaning is salt while Assamese meaning is female genetal. Pakara is another example!

Upper Assam State was created at a relatively later date than the Indiabu Accord, I will have to check when.

This is not relevant here. See above. Chaipau 14:36, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It is clear to a reader like me that Chaipau is trying to rewrite facts and I think what he interpreted for the word maluka is what is it that he may be.

Page on Lachit

I have added a page on Lachit Borphukan. Please have a look. Prabhakar 08:05, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Gamocha

1

The followings needs clarification:

The word gamosa is derived from the Kamrupi word gaamsa (gaam+chadar), the cloth used to cover the Bhagavad Purana at the altar.

This is repetition. Apart from that, as far as I know, Assamese people keep Bhagavat or Srimadbhagavat (translated by Ssnkaradeva at the altar, not Bhagabad Purana.

Prabhakar

For everybody's information, Sankaradeva composed only a few section of Bhagavad Puran to Kamrupi from Sanskrit.

Who wrote this? Please sign. Prabhakar 05:35, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• Dr Rabin Deka wrote the above who lives in San Jose, California. He will write back later with a list of scholars who contributed to Kamrupi Bhagavad Puran including section-outline.

• Sankardeva didn't use Kamrupi, he used Brajavali language in his works. Prabhakar 05:44, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• In undivided Kamrup upto Coos Behar one can find those words still spoken but heavily used in yester year scriptures.

• The very phenomenal Sanskrit pronunciation usage in order to compose present perfect sentences is still spoken in undivided Kamrup. And this grammar is used to compose at least 90% percent of the sloka in yester year Kamrupi scriptures. This is the grammar one can find both in Kamrupi lokageet as well as Bargeet.

• There are sloka in Kamrupi scriptures where scholars wrote explaining why they wrote in Kamrupi although they were good at Sanskrit. So one can find the word Kamrupi, but the word Brajavali nowhere.

• Now, please have a look at the Ramayana hymns composed by Madhavakandali, and then compare the language/grammar with that of Sankaradeva wrote; do the same with Prahlada Charita composed by Hemasarasvati - a scholar can make a impartial decision based on this.

• Mahendrakandali trained Sankaradeva somewhere in present Routa area of undivided Kamrup. Upon reading Samkaradeva's first writing, Mahendrakandali complemented him with a sloka toila nun naai ..., nun here is not Brajabali it is Kamrupi word. To learn why kamrupi words were mutelated in Ahom Kingdom, please refer Grim's law Jakob Grimm as well on phoneme mutelation. No Ahomese scholars wrote a paper in this regard. I do not blame you for creating the word Brajavali, but try to look at why so(?)

Thanks for the info and the citations. Further, your citations are excellent. Wikipedia has a style of citations and why not use that standard in your citations? Please refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cite_your_sources.

Apart from that I have no doubt that gamocha is used to cover the bhagabat, but is it bhagabat puran?

• Prabhakar 07:03, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC) (You can also sign your postings by using four tildas ("~").

2

Significantly the gamosa is used equally by all irrespective of religious and ethnic backgrounds.

This seems to be an overstatement/exaggeration. Prabhakar

Where's the demographics section? Who lives there?

only an assamese can clarify this

Is the native name Assom or Ahom? I lived in Bongaigaon 20 years back, and have heard references to the latter pronunciation. In that case, the spelling in the Assamese script should reflect that name. Any thoughts??? Please CC responeses to my talk page too.

The native name is "axom", neither "assom" nor "ahom". People who cannot pronounce the voiceless velar fricative use either of these two. Chaipau 17:44, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Pizzadeliveryboy 14:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Misuse of Kamrupi Vaishnava Terminology

• There is no sect called maluka in Assam
• Simalarly asama also does not represent any sect in Assam, it means weird/sinner or not comparable in Kamrupi.
• You have shown only a section of the sloka - the entire sloka would make different meaning
• maluka is one who is further down than that of murukha
• You do not create new meanings for Kamrupi words, do you? If you do so wouldn’t you call such act Copyright © Violation and Plagiarism?
• asama maluka is a Kamrupi phrase
• Also Native Assamese should adapt to all Kamrupi words including the grammar in order for them to claim Kamrupi Bhagavad Puran as Assamese
• Please do not delete this note

Kurmaa 02:40, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Kamrupi

I am deleting the word Kamrupi from the section on Assam#Origin of name. The language of the text is not germane to the issue here. I think the quote is appropriate because it contains first use of the word in history. Nevertheless, it seems the Kamrupi page too has a soapbox now! --- Chaipau 22:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

• If duranta asama maluka murukha like my friend Chaipau continues to contribute on Kamrupi soapbox is what we get :-')

Most scholars accept that the first known mention of the word Assam today is in a stanza from the Bhagavad Puran composed/translated in this region about the middle of the 16th century which described the ethnic groups of the region (Srimadbhagavad, skandha 2, H Dattabaruah and Co., Nalbari, pp-38) transcribed in iTrans:

       kiraTa kachhaari      khaachi gaaro miri
               yavana ka~Nka govaala |
       asama maluka            dhobaa ye turuka
               kubaacha mlechchha chaNDaala ||

• I am deleting the entire stuff because there is no ethnic group called maluka. Displaying a portion of the entire hymn also misleads the meaning of a hymn of Vaishnava holy scripture composed in Kamrupi.
• In addition, there is no sect called asama.
• Language is important, because if you do not understand the language you certainly should not be dictating the meaning; you should be learning the language first and present what is right.

Kurmaa 02:03, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

This passage is important not for the meaning of the words, but for the presence of the words. Here "asama" appears for the first time in the context of communities or the region. Scholars have accepted that this the first mention of the word "asama". And that is why it deserves a place here. -- Chaipau 02:06, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

• maluka is not an ethnic group and asama is also not an ethnic group. so you should not be writing to propaget incorrect meaning.
• Now do you understand why language is important?

Kurmaa 02:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

That could be your opinion. But the academic and scholarly world has accepted that this is the first mention of the word Assam. The references are readily available. So you cannot delete that text which represent accepted scholarly work. If you disagree with it, you may mention it in the correct encyclopedic language. So please restore the text. Chaipau 02:21, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Following is not opinion but fact:

• maluka is not an ethnic group, you do not find them
• asama is also not an ethnic group. so you should not be writing to propaget incorrect meaning
• Now do you understand why language is important?

You cannot put a section of the sloka for your purpose. You need to display entire sloka and explain the meaning.

You want to tell the world you are scholar tell something else please leave Kamrupi alone

Kurmaa 04:37, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Please follow Wikipedia policies

Hello Kurmaa,

You probably are not aware of some of the Wikipedia policies. One of the most important is the policy of Wikipedia:Reliable sources. I have mentioned that the portion of the poem has been cited by Bani Kanta Kakati, the foremost linguist on Assamese. This assertion has been approved by most other writers and it has wide acceptance, that that word "asama" is the first use of the name "Assam". Since I have cited reliable sources you cannot delete the portion on your personal whim.

The other important policy is the one on Wikipedia:No original research, which in a nutshell is

Articles may not contain any unpublished theories, data, statements, concepts, arguments, or ideas; or any new analysis or synthesis of published data, statements, concepts, arguments, or ideas.

So when you object to the ideas of Bani Kanta Kakati and others, you will have to cite your sources. You cannot insert your own ideas. Even if you cite sources, you can at best put it up as a contesting idea. You cannot just go ahead and delete that portion. This goes against the policies as well as spirit of Wikipedia.

I am inserting the text. You are invited to put up a contesting portion after citing published work.

-- Chaipau 02:34, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Tea variety

The following paragraph is incorrect: Other than the Chinese tea variety Camellia sinensis, Assam is the only region in the world that has its own variety of tea, called Camellia assamica. The Camellia sinensis entry lists three varieties (China, Assam and Cambodia), and I think that there is a Japanese variety too. --Gabi S. 20:16, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

The Cambodia variety is often considered a hybrid of var sinesis and va assamica. Only two varieties are listed here. Chaipau 22:43, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. --Gabi S. 08:38, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Reverts

Under Origin of Assam

I have reverted the quote from Satyendranath Sarma. The quote should remain because it represents the present scholastic consensus on the subject. Also, I have taken out "due to alieanation of the indegenous tribal people by Non Mongoloid politicians" because the boundaries of Assam has been redrawn many times during British rule too. Chaipau 12:10, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Bamunia ku budhi bur web pagot tu arombho kori nizor asol porisoi diyar babe dhonyobad. Gelekonir pora ahise zetia kursutia sobhab gar pora nezai apunar.

Gamosa etymology

There is more than one etymology of gamosa given here in the article, with no explanation given as to why. Obviously, it can't be that both etymologies are correct, as the two have nothing to do with each other. If there is controversy as to which one is correct, say that, and put the etymologies next to each other. Plus, what is the point of having the Oriya cognate in there? Seems a little extraneous. --SameerKhan 23:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Languages

1. What is this mlechha dynasty....???.............i wrote about Xalostombho/Salastambha Dynasty of 7th-8th century...when we have better terms (from historical lit) to use for such a strong dynasty (of our own past), why to use such controversial terms?

2. "In the past century mass migration of Bengalis to the medieval kingdom of Kacaries in the Barak Valley has led to their majority. Government of Assam for their benefit decided to include Bengali as the official language in the Barak Valley districts."

There is a person here continuously and repeatedly editing these lines. Man, when we have accepted you n ur language in our soil, why should you be shy of migration of Bengalis to Kacar?....What do you want to prove?....Your repeated editing reflects the inner qualities of you for which u guys are famous for!! If you really have confusion, kindly start taking interest in Assam History. I think the Comprehensive History of Assam (ed H K Barpujari) can help u. I am still hopeful tht u guys r going to be positive abt the place u r living n ppl with u r living....n will contribute positively.

3. And why r u repeatedly mentioning abt the large bengali speakin population of the lower Assam districts (u hv mentioned abt Goalpara, Barpeta, etc)?...Majority of these ppl r unfortunately illegal Bangladeshi migrants. If u r a responsible native person frm Assam i hope u will nt be proud of having them in these areas.

-- Porikolpok Oxom (12th Nov'06)

Okay.. but what about the Ahom people? Even they migrated from Thailand (Mong Mao to be particular). So, will you ask the Ahom descendants to leave Assam? Assam belongs as much to Bengalis as the Ahoms.. Both migrated from different land (Bengal and Mong Mao, Thailand)- Sagar 220.227.122.205 (talk) 03:41, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey, Porikolpok Oxom! U wanna detailed discussion on this? if you have the guts, then mail me at sharp_mind76@yahoo.com with your real name.

-- Suman (sharp_mind76@yahoo.com)

Guys, Stop fighting. I am a hindu bengali and my forefathers are residing in Assam since 1912. However, the mass infiltrations of bangladeshis from across the border has really made Assam a mess. Nowadays, wherever you go, you find bangladeshis in Assam. Hate them. Only the Congress is responsible fro this mess and all of the terrorist outfits like ULFA etc.

Hey, You have every right to live in Assam even though your forefathers migrated just in 1912. I am just curious to know where they are originally from? Are they too from Bangladesh, as most other Bengali Hindus of Assam and Tripura?

Let's unite and alienate the bangladeshis, irrespective of their religion. Amen!

Sorry for the outburst. But it's the comment from Mr. Porikolpok Oxom that actually incited me to make some untoward comments. Infact, I am deleting the offensive bit of now itself. Just hope that good sense prevails in the minds of people like him. And I fully agree that mass infiltration of Bangladeshi Muslims has actually changed the demography of the state and the politicians also true to their nature are harbouring them. This is definitely a bad omen for the state.

---Suman

Sylheti Bengalis are native to Assam and majority of them are Muslims. Sylhet region of Bangladesh used to be part of Assam and then they voted to be part of the East Pakistan. Some scholars consider Sylheti language be a dialect of Assamese but most scholars agrees that Sylheti language is the mid-point between Assamese and Bengali.

Hi, Porikolpok Oxom. You have proved your ignorance and stupidity... Are you aware of the demographics of Barak Valley (Formerly a part of Sylhet) in the 19th century and early 20th century? There were migration of Bengali Hindus from East Bengal that changed the demography of this region. Bengali speaking muslims (Sylhetis) have always been the majority in this part of Assam. -Sagar220.227.122.205 (talk) 03:39, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Etymology

whoever, u r.....kindly dont vandalise the artcl........!!!.....plz discuss it here.....or develop it properly in the etymology section with wiki-standards n non-biased arguments!!! also use a proper loggin..... Porikolpok Oxom 19:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

i hv kept ur text here:

'13.02.2007 Supriti Phukan and Sarat Kumar Phukan, Last gate, Dispur, Guwahati-6, Assam, India.'

In recent times since the February, 2006 there is a debate over the change of name from ‘Assam’ to Asom and the debate was initiated by Ex-President Asom Sahitya Sabha Late Chandra Prasad Saikia. Subsequently, the Assam Government particularly the Assam cabinet took a decision in favour of the change. This was made to light by Assam Government spokes person Sri Himanta Biswa Sarma, Minister of State, Finance Department and following which there were reactions and counter reactions from various corner the prominents were: Sri Kanaksen Deka, the present President of Asom Sahitya Sabha, who supported the change along with Prof. Priyam Goswami, Gauhati University, whereas The Assam Tribune, a leading English Daily of North East India, published an Editorial repulsing the view point of change of the name from Assam to Asom. In additon to these, a few local media both print and visual before the necessary Constitutional Amendment introdued the word Asom in place of ‘Assam.’ A few of the organizations like -Tai-Ahom Students’ Organization, Tai Sahitya Sabha, All Assam Yutia sahitya Manch, Six Ethnic Tribal Status Demand Committee etc opposed the induction of name Asom instead they are in favour of the present nomenclature ‘Assam.’ In the process, all the bodies be it in support or in oppose placed their different logics and view points. After going through the entire issue, I desire to place my view point for the consideration of the Assam State Government, The Asom Sahitya Sabha, and all other organizations, individuals finally, the people of Assam and North east India. Place-names are continually changing, especially during periods of various political upheavals but there should be always a reasonable reasoning in every such change. · The term Assam, Asom etc., was originally drawn from the name of Ta:i-A:hom or Sha:n Community. The original home of this community is somewhere in Muang-Mao now in South China (now under Dehong Dai Prefixure). This Ta:i community is known by various names in different regions such as –Shya:m, Sia:m, Sha:m, Sha:n, Da:i, Nue, Newa:, Pa:long, Lu, La:o, La:sha:m, etc. · The Ta:i people entered Assam in various historical epochs since A.D. 12th century onwards. The major or prominent flow was in A.D. 1228 under the Command of Chao Lung Siukapha. At that time the land of upper Assam was under the rule of various smaller ethnic groups viz. Kachari, Moran, Muttack, Borahi, Chutiya etc. The Kachari was dominant group among all of them. · They named this newly entered Tai community as –Ha:Sha:m, Ha:Cha:m (meaning land of Sha:m or Cha:m) later A:sha:m, A:sa:m. · The frontier tribes Singpho, Da:i, La:o, Newa:, Burmese etc. call this community as ‘La:Sha:m’, A:sha:m, A:sha:n, A:tha:n, A:than etc. · Prominent Western scholar Baden Powell finds its root –Ha:Com. · And now let us examine some of the view points in the context: One of the first unambiguous earlier historical references comes from Thomas Bowrey in A.D. 1663 about Mir Jumla's death: "They lost the best of Nababs, the Kingdome of A:cha:m, and, by consequence, many large privileges". Jean-Baptiste Tavernier d'aprés des Documents Nouveaux, 8 vol., Paris, 1886, where the literature of the subject is fully given. See also an English translation of Tavernier's account of his travels so far as relating to India, by V Ball, 2 vols. (1889). For the 400th anniversary of Tavernier’s birth in 2005, the Swiss filmmaker Philippe Nicolet made a full-length film about him called Les voyages en Orient du Baron d’Aubonne. Another Swiss, the sculptor Jacques Basler, has made a life-sized bronze effigy of the great 17th-century traveller which looks out over Lake Geneva at Chexbres) Travels in India, published in A.D. 1676 uses the spelling “A:ssen” for Assam in the French original. · The official chronicler of Mir Jumla too calls the place “A:sa:m”, “A:cha:m” · Most scholars accept that the first known mention of the word Assam today is in a stanza from the Bhagavat of Sankardeva composed/translated in this region about the middle of the A.D. 16th century which described the ethno-cultural groups of the region transcribed in Trans

kiraTa kachhaari      khaachi gaaro miri
        yavana ka~Nka govaala |
a:sa:ma (a:hama) maluka            dhobaa ye turuka
        kubaacha mlechchha chaNDaala ||

In various documents of British East India Company, in their relationships with the last few Ahom kings, the name of country was mentioned as Assam. After the fall of the Ahom kingdom and the conquest by the British in A.D. 1826, in the Treaty of Yandabo, "Assam" was used to denote the area under the earstwhile Ahoms, and its protectorates (Darrang Koch, Jaintias, Kacharis and many hill tribes in the present Arunachal Pradesh and Nagaland). Later it was applied to the entire British province including, Garo Hills and Lushai Hills (Mizoram). The boundaries of Assam have been redrawn many times after that, but the name Assam remained. Today, the political boundary of Assam contains roughly the historical Ahom Kingdom and its protectorates, the Kachari kingdom, Koch Hajo and a part of the Jaintia Kingdom. Inscription (viz. Viswanath Temple Inscriptions one side written in Sanskrit and other side Tai-Ahom languages –Opar pristhe A:sha:ma, A:homa a:ksaren likhitong….), Koch Rajvamsavalli, Koch king’s court and Bhutiya kings’ correspondance record, Coins and Cannon records confirm the use of the word for the state –A:sha:ma.

Most of the Bengal (particularly Mushlims Nababs) and neighbouring states' records prior to the arrival of British rulers used the word ‘A:sha:m’. In the context, the reference made by Chinese scholar Xie Yuan Zhang, in New Letter of Thai-Yunan Project, 1994, is very much relevant over resolving the present debate: Dr. Zhang refering to a ancient Chinese Chronicle he mentions the name of this region as “A:-S-A:-M” (no variation in Tonne). He also mentions that the Kachins of Yunan and Myanmer call the people of this region “L-A:-S-A:-M”. The Chinese also call people of this area as “Cha:n” or “Cha:n-Chi” or “Ta:i” or “Da:i” or Tha:i-Chien (no variation in Tonne) etc. The Chinese also named approximately the Arunachal Pradesh region in their language as “Zangnan or South Tibet”. Also the comment of a historian and literary personality of Assam, Satyendra Nath Sarma has some relevance to the point: While the Shan invaders called themselves Tai, they came to be referred to as Āsām, Āsam and sometimes as Acam by the indigenous people of the country. The modern Assamese word Āhom by which the Tai people are known is derived from Āsām or Āsam. The epithet applied to the Shan conquerors was subsequently transferred to the country over which they ruled and thus the name Kāmarūpa was replaced by Āsām, which ultimately took the Sanskritized form Asama, meaning "unequalled, peerless or uneven"

In our view, the word Assam is of recent origin since the days of the British Government i.e., A.D. 1826 onwards but the root of the word A:sha:ma lies with the ruling Ta:i community (now better known as Tai-A:hom community, A:hom a distorted form of Ha:Sha:m>A:Sha:m>A:hom > A:sha:m >Assam).

Finally, to denote the Ta:i-Ahom (they call themselves) community the words used by various neighbours –Ha:Sha:m, Ha:Cha:m, La:Sha:m, La:Sha:n, A:sha:m, A:sha:n, A:tha:n, A:than, A:Cha:m, A:ssen, as well as A.D. 16th century Bhagawat of Srimanta Sankardeva, Darrang Rajvamsavalli, various Inscriptions, Cannons, Coins, Partughese, Dutch, Parsi records etc., all support that there was clear use of affix -A: in all the cases instead of affix -A. So the word Ha:sha:m or A:sha:m is historically and linguistically established beyond reasonable doubt, hence the name of the State should be Ha:Sha:m or A:sha:m (Assam).

In our view, if the name to be at all changed, the standardized form Ha:Sha:m or La:Sha:m, at least A:sha:m should be accepted at per International Standardization of United Nations Group of Experts on Geographic names (UNGEGN), which has a definite meaning and bearings.

The name of the country A:Sha:m (Assam) was given after the name of this ruling community's land or country 'Ha:Sha:m' or 'La:Sha:m' once they extended their Kingdom up to the river Karatoya. They had also a name in their own language i.e., Tai, Mung-dun-chun-kham, meaning a country of full of garden of gold.

The other reasonings such as Constitutional difficulties, International and National importance and commitment, Brand name difficulties, Drawing common public opinion etc have no legal standing before the logical and scientific reasonings.

Section on Textiles/Dresses of Assam

I am introducing a small article on Textiles and Dresses of AssamTextiles and dresses of Assam. Please contribute to its content. Once there is reasonable mass in there it would be good to put in a summary within the Assam page. Question is would it be best to have it in the Assam page or Culture of Assam page? Looking forward to feedback.

-Deepraj | Talk 10:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

The entry Textiles and dresses of Assam is available for you to contribute to. Please add to it and help improve it to wikipedia standards. I have created entries for Jaapi, Gamosa, Mekhela chador etc already and would be happy to do more if people can keep on passing on their ideas. There is a Category:Textiles and clothing of Assam to link these and any new articles as well -Deepraj | Talk 14:06, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Assam, History of; Insurgency in Assam

It has been seen that the content of the both the portions, 1. Post British Period in History of Assam and 2. Insurgency in Assam in the article Assam are almost the same. I therefore have merged the two together under Post British Period in history part.Porikolpok Oxom 09:04, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

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Use of image showing copyright info on the image itself on FA candidate?

I am curious as to why we have a picture in the main Assam article which depicts the following copyright info (© Arif Siddiqui). Who is Arif S? Do we not have any usable image of the physical geography of Assam that we have to go for such an image? If we are trying for Featured Article class this will certainly be a hindrance. Looking forward to views from the others. -Deepraj | Talk 17:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I suggest we don't use pictures with prominent copyright marks. They look like promotions. I shall be removing them. Chaipau 15:41, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

OK!..but pics wr gud. ..thn lets get alternative pics... does soemone hv gud pics depictin unique landscape in assam?Porikolpok Oxom 16:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Just wait! We are getting absolutely fabulous pictures from User:Mozzworld. Check some of the samples: http://tasir.piranho.de/photos.html. Chaipau 13:15, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Is the article length/size too big/bloated?

The current version of the article is 77 kilobytes long as well as many scroll lengths on display. A significant display space is used by the References/Notes/Bibliography etc (6 out of 21 vertical page lengths) only. IMHO it is slowly taking away the readability of the article.

Do bear in mind I do not think that the content is irrelevant or useless. There is a wealth of information but we might need to take a step backwards and re-asses the direction in which we are moving.

Can we break the content into a few more articles which are more focused on the specific topics and maintain only a summary version for Assam? What do you think? -Deepraj | Talk 10:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the article is indeed too long and not quite readable. We should probably dump all that we think are relevant and then begin copy editing. The History section is too long. There are a few other sections like that that need to be either shrunk or removed entirely. We should look at articles like Kerala and West Bengal for a guide. They are both featured articles. I suggest we make this article the article of the month for August 2007 and work on it and at the end of which we will formally ask for comments and a class. This way hopefully the article will make it way to FA class. Chaipau 10:51, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Never part of India before British?

You know its amazing how some people are so ethno centric that they would say Assam was never part of India before the British. I mean come on. The first people in the area were Indian or Aryan or Hindu (which ever term you prefer) and im sure it is mentioned in VEdic text, and its part of the same land and region and yet this article makes Assam sound as if it was seperate and not part of India until the British came.........thats not fair.........its like saying Nepal was never part of India.......just because there were no official flags and countries in the olden days doesnt mean there wasnt a general consensus that the area is all one.......Nepal was part of ancient India..so was Assam.....so was was Afghanistan.....and Paksitan.....and blah blah blah you get the point im trying to make.......That part of the article should be taken out. 71.105.85.141 (talk) 05:47, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I have put the interlink to North East Institute of Science and Technology, Jorhat--Wahabdr 12:25, 14 June 2008 (UTC) 13 June 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wahabdr (talk • contribs)

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Assam was never a part of India ,in the sense that it was never ruled by any of the emperor that ruled the unified India. It always defended it against Indian Rulers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dipjyotidutta (talk • contribs) 05:58, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Capital

//its capital at Dispur, in the outskirts of the city Guwahati.// Template says capital is Guwahati. Actually Dispur is capital. Can we change it? --Kurumban (talk) 20:18, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Dispur is a part of Guwahati city and is not on the outskirts. Although, officially the capital of Assam is mentioned as Dispur. In fact the PIN code for Dispur area, which houses the secretariat is Guwahati - 781005. Shovon (talk) 10:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Physical geography

I've moved the gallery of pictures down to the bottom of the section; i think it is less distracting that way. Can anyone think of a better arrangement? It isn't ideal to have galleries at all within sections, but they won't all fit longways, and it's no good at the bottom of the page. Ideas? Moonraker12 (talk) 17:07, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Ahom dynasty query

I was wondering if anyone here, knowledgable on Assamese history, could tell me whether there is a surviving claimant to the dynasty of the Ahom kingdom. The last ruling kings, Chandrakaanta Singa and Purandar Singha died in the 19th Century, but most ruling families have someone identified as the Head of the Royal House...is this the case with the Ahom, or is the line extinct? The question is for another article. Thankyou! Night w (talk) 14:38, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

File:Panchpeer masjid dhubri district.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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pron

Which language is the pronunciation in? It was listed as if it were Assamese, and it's not English, but it doesn't match the Assamese transcription. — kwami (talk) 07:12, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Lede

Significantly reduced and cleaned-up the lede. It was way too long and included a bunch of details more befitting a lower section and was not well organized. I know next to nothing about Assam and so basically just removed and reorganized the information that was there to make it more readable and to try to give a good overview of what's in the article. someone with more knowledge could certainly improve it. -- InspectorTiger (talk) 17:34, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

The lede has indeed gotten worse over time, because of too many edits and unresolved issues. Needs a rewrite, which I shall attempt soon.

Etymology

The name is incorrectly mentioned as one that originates in English. It contradicts the quote from S N Sharma (who quotes B K Kakati), which explicitly says it originates in the name given to the Tai rulers buy the natives (Tibeto-Burman speakers). This is accepted by Amalendu Guha too (see Etymology of Assam), and thus can be considered to be the academic consensus. The Sanskrit Asama, meaning "unequaled" or "uneven", was a later interpretation as clearly mentioned by Kakati and quoted by Sharma ("which ultimately took the Sanskritized form Asama, meaning 'unequaled, peerless or uneven'"). Chaipau (talk) 12:52, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and cleaned up the Etymology section. Please discuss here before making edits. Thanks. Chaipau (talk) 10:38, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

The following references have problems:

The academic consensus is that the current name is based on the English word Assam

All three are about deriving the word "Assamese" from Assam, and adds nothing issue here. Chaipau (talk) 13:27, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Clarifications

• As Europeans named the "region" as Assam, so any kingdom of said land can be referred as Kingdom of Assam

The Europeans did not name the region Assam. This is clear from Satyendranath Sarma's quote. The name Assam is found in the 16th century Assam Bhagavata of Sankardeva.

• medieval kingdom

They lost the best of Nabobs, the Kingdome of Acham, and, by consequence, many large privileges from Bowrey, Thomas, A Geographical Account of Countries around Bay of Bengal, ed Temple, R. C., Hakluyt Society's Publications

I shall now remove the clarification tags.

Chaipau (talk) 13:55, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

• General comments to cover all the clarification requirements I am giving below a quote from Banikanta Kakati, "Aspects of Early Assamese Literature", gauhati University 1953. Note that parts of the following is paraphrased by Satyendra Nath Sarma, which shows academic concensus, not what is being currently claimed as academic consensus.

The word 'Assamese' is an English one based on the anglicised form 'Assam' from the native word "Asam", which in its turn is connected with the Shans who invaded the Brahmaputra Valley in the 13th century. Though the Shan invaders called themselves "Tai" they came to be referred to as Āsam, Āsām and Ācam by the indigenous people of the province, Early Assamese chronicles used all these variants to mean the new Shan invaders. The modern Assamese word Āhom by which the Tai people are known goes back to early Assamese Āsām (Āsām > Asam > Aham > Āhom). The last syllable of Āsām might very well be connected with Sham (Shan, Shyam) as Dr. Grierson has suggested, but then the initial vowel 'ă' would remain unexplained. Sir Edward Gait suggests Asam (unequalled or peerless) to be the origin of the present word Āhom, but most probably Asama meaning peerless or unequalled is a latter day Sanskritization of some earlier form like Āchām. In Tai the root cham means "to be defeated". With the privative Assamese affix 'ā' the whole formation Āchām would mean undefeated. The change of Āchām is very natural. The presence of forms like Āsām and Ācăm in early Assamese lends support to the above view. In a later period, the term Āsām was further Sanksritised by changing it to Āsām.

There are other theories on the origin of the name. Beside what Banikanta Kakati suggests Āchām (Tai), there is ha-chom (Bodo) etc. Though scholars may disagree on what the precise origin of name, they all agree that it is an indigenous word. For example D C Sircar concurs in "The Comprehensive History of Assam" Assam is the English form of `Asama` which is apparently a Sanskritised form of the tribal name Ahom. But that the name is associated with the Tai and their kingdom is irrefutable:

• • Asama, Sankardev's 16th century Bhagavata (M Taher in "Geography of Assam", 2001, p2)
  • Ashām, Ain-i-Akbari by Abu-Fazl (1551-1602) (D C Sircar, above)
  • Country of Asom (1608-1624) , Baharistan-I-Ghaybi by Mirza Nathan (M Taher)
  • Axom for the Ahom community, Darangraj Vamshavali (M Taher)
  • Axom for the Ahom community, Daityari Thakur (M Taher)
  • Asom for the land east of Guwahati upto Sadiya (1662-1663)

By the time the English occupied Assam, Axom was the entire Brahmaputra valley to which the British kept adding smaller kingdoms (M Taher)

Chaipau (talk) 23:02, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Official language

Sir, In the infobox of the article, Karbi is written as the official language of Barak balley. I think it should be Bengali.

Wahabdr (talk) 17:11, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

"Assam" is based on the English word Assam

The editor writes 'The academic consensus is that current name "Assam" is based on the English word Assam'. This sentence does not make sense. A name cannot be based on itself. Further, the reference says: "The word Assamese is an English one, built on the same principle as Cingalese, Canarese, etc. It is based on the English word Assam." In other words the reference derives the name "Assamese" from Assam. The reference does nothing what the editor claims it does. Chaipau (talk) 00:15, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Vunerable to Original Research

The etymology section of this article is prone to original research and vandalism. Wikipedia articles should be directly verifiable with sources. Editors own assumptions should not be included, if found any, removed immediately to maintain sanity of the article. bbhagawati 04:55, 1 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhaskarbhagawati (talk • contribs)

I have tried to engage you in a discussion to no avail. The messages I have left on your talk pages you have blanked out, without any reply. I request your cooperation in trying to make the article readable --- right now it is controversial and muddleheaded, with lots of citation clutter, and errors etc. As far as original research is concerned, I have provided all the references above. Please go through them, if you haven't.

I have marked some wrong citations. Please address them. Chaipau (talk) 05:41, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Recent edits

Hi Bhaskar Bhagawati,

I have been trying to make contact with you so that the issues of references and claims on the section Assam#Etymology can be settled. I have given references that you had asked for via your tags. Please do not remove the tags I have placed without addressing the issues, as you have done here. I have since reinserted the tags. Please address the issues. I shall assume that you have read this note when you blank it. If you do have something to comment, leave a note on my talk page. Please do not remove the citation tags without addressing the issues. Editing in Wikipedia is a collaborative process, so please take this as in invitation to collaborate.

Chaipau (talk) 13:21, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Comment

The state of Assam as of today is a divided place, as a res000ult of influx of non Mongoloid people in to the region from across the border both from India and Bangladesh.

The shift towards domination by Indians and Muslims started after the British take over in 1826 and climxed in the 1940's with the Congress party bringing in crores of Bangladeshis in to the region to secure their win in future Parliamentary and State elections.

Assam which was originally a Mongoloid land now is being taken over by Bangladeshis and High Cast Hindu Indians and traders from Rajeshthan.

All this has resulted in alieanation of the indegenous tribal population from the developmental process, giving rise to seperatist movement and inter tribal clashes.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Santanuburagohain (talk • contribs) 07:04, 29 June 2006

"Mongoloid" is not the correct description for Han and Mongol race origin. Rather, it is a description used to describe people with a specific genetic abnormality called mongolism. As to your points, please feel free to contribute to the article with cited references to include your observations of contemporary North Eastern India. Andmark (talk) 00:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Multiple issues with lead

There are currently multiple issues with the lead:

• The pronunciation of Assam is not /əˈsæm/. This is a faux-anglisized pronunciation, not used anywhere in the world. Here is a BBC reporter saying Assam: [3]
• This is the name of the state, which includes two major valleys and hills. So, Assam Valley, which is synonymous with the Brahmaputra is definitely not what this article is just about.
• Assam was not an "original" province of British India. The Assam province was created midway after carving out Sylhet from Bengal.
• What is exquisite natural resources?
• The first paragraph fails to even place it---where is Assam?
• Swami Vivekananda visited Shillong. So when he described the beauty of Assam he actually means present-day Meghalaya.
• There is no longer an abundance of forests.

I am reverting the lead. Please do not change the lead without a discussion here.

Chaipau (talk) 16:40, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Agree with your points. Shovon (talk) 21:07, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Etymology section

Etymology section of this article should be prepared as per decision made at Reliable Sources/Noticeboard. This should be done immediately to respect dispute resolution process of Wikipedia. भास्कर्bhagawati Speak 11:02, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

The dispute resolution process was complete. The current status of this section follows the resolution in Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_44#Assam. You tried to revert even after the resolution was reached, and you were warned [4]. Please do not try to resurrect the issue once again. If you continue with your refusal to get the point you will be reported to WP:ANI as suggested in the resolution. Chaipau (talk) 10:05, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Disputes cannot be solved without involovement of second person which is exactly in case of link provided by user Chaipau. So if i will involve in DRN, result will be same as it happened in RSN before. It should be noted that DRN cannot go against findings of RSN, So it is very obvious that said DRN will surely comply them. But problem is that, user Chaipau had filed that case in my absence, so how i can put my point. So cooperation is required and personal POV's should be stopped. भास्कर्bhagawati Speak 16:53, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

You reference to so called warning was answered here. I will now file a DRN to enforce original RSN consensus. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 09:40, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Medieval history section

It cannot be claimed that Medieval times left larger impact in Assam as religion, language, society and people of current Assam are based on Ancient Kamrup. While any group ruled Eastern Assam cannot claimed that it ruled entire Assam for said period say 600 or so on as colonial and even current Assam is much bigger than that. भास्कर्bhagawati Speak 10:57, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

There is no point in creating a dispute over this. "larger" is now "large". There is no need to delete whole sentences when deleting just a letter does much better. Chaipau (talk) 13:50, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Peer revivew

Suggestions generated by an automatic JavaScript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

• Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.^[?]
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• There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
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Checklinks found 11 dead links out of a total of 70 links on 23 September 2012 at 07:04. Please improve it. Please help to make this artice as Featured artice. Bishnu Saikia (talk) 05:15, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Assam#Etymology of Assam

BB, please discuss edits on this topic before making your own edits. I would like to remind you that the text (Talk:Assam/Archive_2#Alternate_text_4) was arrived at after a lot of discussion, and it ended with the decision given here: Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_44#Assam. You are welcome to insert your edits, but please do so after discussing it in the talk page, or on my talk page. As far as your current inserts are concerned, they just add noise to the focus of the discussion --- the origin of the name "Assam". For most of the historical period, from the 4th/5th century to the 12th century, Davaka was a part of Kamarupa. So it is not wrong to ignore it. Furthermore, if you want to be accurate, you will have to keep adding all the other regions that were not part of Kamarupa in the 4th century---Sylhet, Lakhimpur, Dibsrugarh, etc. Therefore, it is not advisable to insert this into this part of the text. But you are very welcome to insert Davaka at other places, where it is relevant. Chaipau (talk) 22:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

The discussion was that your then text was fit to include in etymolgy section, it does not make you owner of that section, as other people need your permission to insert further text. I also like to remind you of another discussion where i am involved, that an particular tribe should not associated with etymolgy, but that you like to ignore. Double standards ?

As per Kanak Lal Barua and others Davaka was absorbed quite late in Kamrup, so it existed long enough for notability. Davaka was important kingdom as found mention in Allahabad Pillar of Samudra Gupta. I don't know what political identities were Sylhet, Lakhimpur, Dibrugarh in first millennium common era. Don't make controversies out of each and every thing, this makes article development difficult and discuss before removing sourced text. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 13:32, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Of late i feel that you are using Wikipedia as recreation tool, i request you to avoid unnecessary arguments as far as possible, it will discourage other users to edit Wikipedia on expense of their valuable time; ultimately content will be compromised. Such thing happened in your case before. Thanks. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 14:10, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

I am just asking you to discuss your edit here before you insert anything. This is the Wikipedia norm. I would like to quote from the comment by another editor at the dispute resolution here:

" My inclination, after reviewing the prior DRN cases (listed above by Ebe123), is that the sources & approach suggested by user Chaipau are most consistent with WP polices. User Bhaskarbhagawati has not engaged in good faith discussions, in spite of being repeatedly notified of the discussions (but Bhaskarbhagawati has blanked his Talk page a few times). I agree with S. Zhang that user Chaipau should proceed with editing the article, and if user Bhaskarbhagawati reverts the edits, then the behavior should be brought up at WP:ANI to consider a possible block of Bhaskarbhagawati."

I ask you not to further edit this without discussing it here on the talk page and coming into a consensus. No one owns Wikipedia, it works only by consensus.

Chaipau (talk) 17:39, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Please provide the K L Barua reference you made above. According to Puri, Brij Nath (1968). Studies in Early History and Administration in Assam. Gauhati University, it is "presumed" that Kalyanavarman (422-446) absorbed it. It is "presumed" because there exists no mention of the Davaka again. So it had an independent existence for less than a hundred years, out of a total 800 years of Kamarupa kingdom's existence -- probably about 10% of the period. That it finds mention in only one inscription and absolutely no information whatsoever, shows it has no significance. Chaipau (talk) 19:44, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

(Comment from uninvolved editor) This is a neutral statement, so technically it doesn't count as a third opinion. I just want to point out, Chaipau, two things:

1. Both discussions you linked to are three years old, and sometimes consensus can change within that time period.
2. Your suggestion that Bhaskarbhagawati discusses changes on your talk page before s/he adds them is a borderline WP:OWN violation. Erpert ^{blah, blah, blah...} 05:21, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, for your comment, Erpert. I would like to clarify that

1. I agree consensus can change and that is why a discussion and a renewed consensus building is preferable to an edit war. So I reached out to Bhaskarbhagawati to begin the discussion.
2. My suggestion was to discussing it in the talk page, or on my talk page and not on my talk page alone. I suggested my own talk page as an alternative to the page here because BB generally blanks his own page. But what I wanted was a place, any place, to gauge how the consensus has changed, and not indulge in an edit war.

I would encourage you to please keep an interest and help us in coming to a consensus here.

Chaipau (talk) 11:02, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Third opinion

ONUnicorn (talk · contribs) wants to offer a third opinion. To assist with the process, editors are requested to summarize the dispute in a short sentence below. I'm asking for a summary because, from reading the above, I am unclear about exactly why @Chaipau: objects to a mention of Davaka, or why @Bhaskarbhagawati: is determined to include it. Please, each of you summarize the dispute below dealing only with the content and not user actions.

Viewpoint by (user:bhaskarbhagawati)

....

The history of current Assam state is divided into proto-history which is based on legends, and ancient history (which is the issue here) and later. In ancient times current Western Assam was known as Kamarupa, central Assam was known as Davaka, for further eastern areas no history was known until the expansion of Kamarupa to the east.

Davaka was an important kingdom of ancient north east India, especially for people of central Assam and their history. Every scholar of ancient Assam has mentioned Kamarupa and Davaka as separate and submissive friendly kingdoms which was absorbed by Kamarupa after its eastward conquests, date of which as per major historians of ancient Assam, Kanak Lal Barua (vide Early History of Kamarupa and other works) was 6 to 7th century.

Davaka found mention in 4th century North Indian Allahabad Pillar too. So as an important kingdom of eastern India, it has enough notability to included in etymology section of its home state article. Thanks. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak

Viewpoint by (Chaipau (talk))

The section is about the Etymology of "Assam", a name that came into existence in the 16th century.[5] It is meant to be a summary, with the details in Etymology of Assam. Kamarupa and Pragjyotisha are mentioned in this section because they are the names used for Assam in the past, especially from the 5th century to the 12th century, but these names themselves have no contribution to the formation of "Assam". Davaka was a separate kingdom in the middle of the 4th century, but it became a part of Kamarupa in the 5th century never to be independent/sovereign again---the only reference to it comes from just one inscription, without any description. Though it has limited meaning in descriptions of Kamarupa, it has no relevance in the etymology of Assam.

The issues here are WP:REL as a means to contain WP:SIZE and WP:UNDUE. The points raised by user:Bhaskarbhagawati may be relevant elsewhere, but not here. Furthermore, on a minor point, K L Barua's (1933) is an older work that has been superseded by later findings. The 5th-century Nagajari-Khanikargaon rock inscription in Golaghat, east of Nagaon/Davaka, was discovered in 1972, making the K L Barua's claim of independence of Davaka up to the 6th/7th century untenable. P C Choudhury (1958) and B Puri (1978) identifies Kamarupa king Kalyana Varman (422-426) as the one who expanded into Davaka. Even though user:Bhaskarbhagawati is making a different claim here, he makes this precise point here

Chaipau (talk) 23:02, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I now see that the following text was also added " (eastern Assam) and Kamrup (western Assam),[5][6][7]". This too has WP:REL, because this is about names and not about boundaries. Chaipau (talk) 05:08, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Third opinion by ONUnicorn

....

I see. Thank you both for your succinct, well stated descriptions of the issue.

It seems that Davaka should definitely be mentioned in the section of the article discussing ancient history, which it currently is. However, I agree with Chaipau that its relevance to the etymology of the word "Assam" (origins and meanings of the word itself) is questionable at best.

To the extent that scholars and sources disagree about when Davaka ceased to be independent and became a part of Kamarupa, that controversy can be explored further in the history section, and/or in the articles on Davaka (currently a pathetically short stub) and Kamarupa.

I really think the article on Davaka itself should be expanded, and then use that as a jumping off point to provide some context for its importance to Kamarupa and Assam and India generally. At any rate, I agree it doesn't belong in the etymology section, though it does belong in the history section. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 15:48, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your effort and opinion, ONUnicorn. I consider this as the close of this issue and invite Bhaskarbhagawati to improve Davaka. Chaipau (talk) 16:10, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks ONUnicorn for your help.

For Kanal Lal Barua, as claimed as older work, i invite User:Chaipau to look for all later works on Kamarupa which references him.

So to be precise, ONUnicorndo you think its justifiable to include Kamarupa in etymology of name Assam, as accepted by user:Chaipau that it has no significance in etymology of current name, while omitting its contemporary Davaka. For record, Kamarupa was initially a smaller region, which at height covered entire eastern India, current Assam state as small area within. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 19:53, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

I do think it's important to note that the region was called something different until either the 13th century or British. I also think Kamarupa is important to mention in light of the following sentence, "In medieval times the Mughals used Asham (eastern Assam) and Kamrup (western Assam)," because it tells the reader where Kamrup came from, and that Asham was, seemingly, a newer name brought by the Mughals. Then, by the time of the British, Kamrup apparently was abandoned in favor of a modified Assam. At least, that's the impression given by the current text. It shows a timeline for what the region was called, indicating that at one time it was simultaneously known by two names, one of which appears to be related to the previous name and one of which appears to be related to the modern name - it shows the progression. So it makes sense to me for Kamarupa to be there. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 20:22, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, but for reference, i like to point out that Davaka area is still known by same name, please consider the point. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 21:04, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

ONUnicorn, I would like to point out that the text "In medieval times the Mughals used Asham (eastern Assam) and Kamrup (western Assam)," is false and misleading. In the medieval times (after the 13th century), Kamrup was consistently used for the region to the west of a river called Barnadi, this despite the fact that Kamrup was not associated with a ruling house. It was either in the control of the Kamata kingdom, the Koch dynasty or under the control of a confederacy of Baro-Bhuyan. On the other hand, "Assam" was associated with a ruling house (Ahom kingdom). After 1671 (Battle of Saraighat) Kamrup came under the control of the Ahom kingdom. Kamrup became a part of Ahom kingdom (then called Asham/Assam), but the region continued to be called Kamrup as in the past.

In the section, the sentence originally read "In medieval times the Mughals used Asham, and during British colonialism, the English used Assam" (Talk:Assam/Archive_2#Alternate_text_4). The text "(eastern Assam) and Kamrup (western Assam)" was added later [6]. This is not only patently false, it confuses and misleads.

Chaipau (talk) 00:33, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Hold on, lets solve the isue on hand first. In case of Kamrup, like rest of India, in mid and late medieval times was occupied by different foreign forces like Mughals starting from Muhammad Bin Buktiyar, Koch, Tai's, Mynmarese and finally British. Scholars wrote nobody hold Kamrup for long, as its local people from Zamindars to peasants resisted foreign occupation. so its culture remained untouched.

The English word Assam later covered current South Assam and Western Assam.

In the section, the sentence originally read "In medieval times the Mughals used Asham, and during British colonialism, the English used Assam" (Talk:Assam/Archive_2#Alternate_text_4). The text "(eastern Assam) and Kamrup (western Assam)" was added later [7]. This is not only patently false, it confuses and misleads. Kindly see, references attached with the text. Of late, i found that some comments made by user:Chaipau fails wp:or.

After 1671 (Battle of Saraighat) Kamrup came under the control of the Ahom kingdom. Kamrup became a part of Ahom kingdom (then called Asham/Assam), but the region continued to be called Kamrup as in the past. Even the Tai invaders refers the region as Kamrup, so it is till modern times. On the other hand, "Assam" was associated with a ruling house (Ahom kingdom). As per scholsr like Grierson, Banikanta Kakati and others, Sanskrit Asama was referred to land meaning uneven.

Now , current issue discussion comes to two conclusions: (i) Both Kamarupa and Davaka failed the criteria to included in etymology section, as not related to current name, to be updated in concerned article too, solely wrote by user:Chaipau, which was tagged earlier for neutrality and partisan sources issue.

(ii) Both Kamarupa and Davaka qualified to included in etymolgy section as past names for Western and Central Assam, and show continuity till modern times in form of Kamrup region, Kamrup district and Dabaka भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 08:41, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

So you agree that Kamrup region was within the Ahom kingdom, from effectively 1671 to 1826, when the Ahom kingdom collapsed. And that the Ahoms continued to call the region Kamrup. So the division you have inserted "Asham (eastern Assam) and Kamrup (western Assam)" is factually incorrect.

I shall not address here the other factually incorrect statements you have made above.

Chaipau (talk) 10:41, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

So you agree that Kamrup region was within the Ahom kingdom Tell me what is the medieval and modern definition of Kamrup.

from effectively 1671 to 1826, when the Ahom kingdom collapsed Modern Kamrup (a smaller region within Western Assam (medieval Kamrup)) was occupied by different forces at different times, but the name remains constant, as per sources in article. Tai kingdom collapsed long ago before 1826, with defeat in the hands of Mynmarese army.

So the division you have inserted "Asham (eastern Assam) and Kamrup (western Assam)" is factually incorrect. All the sources tells that Kamrup retained its name till formation of districts in colonial Assam state under British.I shall not address here the other factually incorrect statements you have made aboveLet me which are. Rather original research in some of your statements regarding Golaghat and Davaka.

Fresh issue brought can be discussed in while, as it is diverting the main issue. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 13:04, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

To summarise, i think we can now safely say that Davaka and Kamarupa are past names of the region and both shows progression. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 13:46, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Etymology of Assam --- WP:REL and also factually incorrect

The boundary of Assam, or its limits, as has been asserted in "Asham (eastern Assam) and Kamrup (western Assam)" is both not relevant in the discussion of etymology of the name; factually incorrect and not supported even by the cherry picked references. Please also look at the section above for a discussion.

• This section is about the etymology of "Assam" and details of its territories is not relevant here.
• The claimed division is itself factually incorrect. "Asham" was the name the Mughal used for the Ahom kingdom, and the Ahom kingdom occupied Kamrup, wresting it from the Mughals.
• The three references cited is an example of citation packing, to protect the inserted text. One of the references does indeed claim that Kamrup was a part of Assam, just the opposite of what the text is claiming.

This text is misleading and gives the wrong impression, as seen in the section above. Please come to a consensus here. Chaipau (talk) 12:44, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Does last issue fully resolved? भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 12:55, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I like to clear little bit. The boundary of Assam, or its limits, as has been asserted in "Asham (eastern Assam) and Kamrup (western Assam)" is both not relevant in the discussion of etymology of the name , i have no objection in removing Kamrup i.e Western Assam, if you correctly point out what exactly Mughals referred as Asham, the entire current boundary of Assam or Eastern Assam alone. This section is about the etymology of "Assam" and details of its territories is not relevant here. My last line clears it. The claimed division is itself factually incorrect. "Asham" was the name the Mughal used for the Ahom kingdom, and the Ahom kingdom occupied Kamrup, wresting it from the Mughals. As per sources provided in article Mughals and others referred it as Kamrup. According to scholars like Banikanta, Tai occupation of Kamrup was brief and towards their end of reign.One of the references does indeed claim that Kamrup was a part of Assam, just the opposite of what the text is claiming Assam referred there is current Assam, not medieval entity of Asham.This text is misleading and gives the wrong impression, as seen in the section abovekindly address the issue and i have no problem. To clear your continued confusion, i like to point out to Kamrupi scholar Upendranatha Goswami (1970). He wrote that Politically, socially and culturally Kamrup formed a separate unit, that is Kamrup never became permanent part of any foreign entities, maintained its separate identity, though different invaders continue to occupied it briefly in medieval times, no one can hold it for long. भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 14:24, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

It is a historical fact that Kamrup was a part of the Ahom kingdom from 1671 to the end of the Ahom kingdom, except for a period between 1679 to 1682. "In the Battle of Itakhuli in September 1682, the Ahom forces chased the defeated Mughals nearly one hundred kilometers back to the Manas river. The Manas then became the Ahom-Mughal boundary until the British occupation." [Richards, John F. (1995), "The Mughal Empire" p. 247]. In other words, Kamrup has been a part of Assam under the Ahoms, the British and after Indian independence till today. In any case this fact in not relevant to the etymology of Assam. Chaipau (talk) 10:45, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Flora

I think some more information is required regarding the flora of Assam. Prangan Kashyap (talk) 14:30, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Agree. I commented on your page. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 20:24, 7 April 2015 (UTC)