Talk:Athenagoras I of Constantinople

Comment

In the second and third paragraph you can read:

appoint Metr. Athenagoras to the position of Archbishop of North and South America...

dissension between Royalists and Venizelists who had virtually divided the country...

in the personal airplane of the American president Harry Truman...

Giving to the reader the impression that the writer doesn't know the difference between the Americas and the U.S.A.

I would fix it myself, but I don't know a word about the life of this guy... --euyyn 21:20, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Who where the Royalists and the Venizelists?

It seems that there's no info in wikipedia about them: Royalists Venizelists --euyyn 21:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

They were two political groups in early 20th c. Greece. The Venizelists were partisans of Eleftherios Venizelos, the prime minister of Greece, while the Royalists supported rule by the Greek monarchy. —Preost ^{talk contribs} 03:12, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Athenagoras.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

circumstances of his election and acceptance by turkish authorities

there is something i don't understand: the turks allow only ethnic greeks with turkish citizenship by birth to become patriarch. athenagoras was born in epirus, when it was still ottoman - is this the reason, why he was accepted a turkish citizen by birth?? and then, patriarch constantins VI. election was not accepted by the turks and he was expelled because they considered him a subject to the population-exchange as he was from outside istanbul (see http://www.turkishweekly.net/articles.php?id=86). why did they accept athenagoras who had much less "connection" with turkey? maybe somebody with competence can explain. --Severino (talk) 16:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Age

If he was born on 8 September 1914(1914-09-08) and died on July 7, 1972 he would not be (aged 86) as the page says...he would be 57. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.117.184.221 (talk) 09:42, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Partial revert

Partially reverted sneaky removal of an inline citation which set the alarm into the admins to protect the page. Left everything else equal. --_Sulmues ^{Let's talk} 20:30, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Had to revert again [1], as banned user:Deucalionite made the edit before sprotection requested by FPS. --_Sulmues ^{Let's talk} 22:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Since I can't make more than one revert per day, and I am considering a revert my first partial revert, to broadly consider my 1RR sanction, please someone revert banned user contribution. --_Sulmues ^{Let's talk} 23:11, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Per FutureP I reverted him.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 23:40, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

So what have we here? One source that says he is Greek, and another that says he is Albanian (mentions it in passing, without providing any details). This clearly shows there ambiguity about his ethnicity, which is anyway not that important. It only is important to nationalis-minded users. Therefore, at this point, I think it's best to remove any mentions of ethnicity. Athenean (talk) 23:47, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I have removed any mentions of ethnicity, which is anyway not that important, and for which we have diametrically opposite claims. Until such time as the question is resolved, I think it's best the article stay that way. Hope that's ok with everyone. Athenean (talk) 23:52, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Fine with me, sure. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:14, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

albanians in pogoni..? i dont know but it seems doubtful...athenagoras might have also been of vlach origins if i remember well but its clear that he was greek (yeah yeah i know as a figure he transcends ethnic and national borders)..87.202.15.183 (talk) 16:14, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Nice job (again) 87.x, no wonder I've found a nice source that confirms this.Alexikoua (talk) 15:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

But you didn't have to remove the other alternative as there isn't a dominant number of source stating the one or the other.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 15:54, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Either Greek or Albanian he was of Aromanian origin. Guess someone else initiated this strategy: [[2]],Alexikoua (talk) 17:36, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

There is a book about his village, Vasiliko(Tsaraplana):"Βασιλικό (Τσαραπλανά) Πωγωνίου Ο τόπος, η ιστορία και το γλωσσικό ιδίωμα".It refers to the history and the local idiom of the village which was not arvanitika or albanian.So the other source that says he was albanian is misleading.In the area of Pogoni there were greek and aromanian speaking villages.Even today the villages of this part of Pogoni which belongs to Albania (Tsiatista,Polichani,Sopiki,Shoriades,Hlomo) are greek speaking villages,in the area of the greek minority in Albania. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giorgovasilis (talk • contribs) 12:08, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

...and User:Zjarri. some months later makes the revert without stating the reason in the discussion page, per wp:ninja. Hope there is a good reason now to remove a source that's not suitable with our national standarts.Alexikoua (talk) 17:05, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

The source was part of the article until February 3[3], when someone removed it and I readded it i.e I didn't make any ninja edits and I didn't remove any sources. Of course Oxford University Press is rs, so if someone doesn't consider its relevant to the subject publication reliable he should take it to RSN.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 08:49, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Maximus V.

Patriarch Athenagoras could only be elcted because Patriarch Maximus was forced to resign. Athgenagoras was not an Orthodox Patriarch like Maximus but the Patriarch of the CIA, the WWC and the Papists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.6.254.91 (talk) 20:47, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Rerference

I think that this book is a clear case of tertiary source and should be ommited from being used in Wikipedia per WP:TERTIARY. Also, if there is no secondary source that claims that Athenagoras was born to a Greek family, than this claim should be removed.Balkanian`s word (talk) 14:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

nothing in WP:TERTIARY forbids the use of reliable tertiary publications. the book you think should be omitted is the only reliable source available that gives details on the early life of Athenagoras (plus, the Current Biography series is way better than the "secondary sources" I've seen that label Athenagoras an "X-ian" but are suspiciously silent on giving details about his early life and family). keep out the wikilawyering and just keep the facts. thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.5.35.114 (talk) 14:24, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

I added the other source. You cannot ommit a secondary source just becouase you don't like it. Per WP:TERTIARY, a tertiary source may be used only if secondary sources contradict each other, which is not the case here. So, if you want to keep it, please find a secondary source, which states that Athenagoras was greek. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.208.205 (talk) 12:18, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

your wikilawyering won't accomplish anything since this has nothing to do WP:IDONTLIKEIT and everything to do with WP:RS. the obviously pro-Albanian "secondary source" (i.e. Broun) you reinserted only mentions Athenagoras in passing and provides no details about his early life and family. until you find a secondary (or tertiary) source that labels him an "X-ian" with accurate details to back up the label, I'm afraid that the "secondary source" you love so much is not reliable (a secondary source isn't reliable just because it's a secondary source). also, the Current Biography series meets all the requirements of WP:RS and should not be removed just because "you don't like it". but you're right that a secondary source should be included which is why I added a reliable secondary source that regards Athenagoras a "Greek archbishop" which flat out nullifies your "secondary source" that falsely labels him a member of the "Albanian (ethnic/religious) diaspora" (if Athenagoras was an "Albanian", he would have been regarded as an "Albanian archbishop" in every book on the planet before becoming an Ecumenical Patriarch). i'll say it again, keep out the wikilawyering and just keep the facts. thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.5.43.24 (talk) 18:01, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

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