Talk:Avery Bradley

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Two day protection

I have semi-protected the page for 2 days. Hopefully the trade info will show up in a reliable source by then and we can turn it off. ~ GB fan 16:39, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Lakers 2020 Championship

Many editors have mistakenly attributed the "2020 NBA Champion" to Bradley. This was an interesting season because of the suspension and later restart as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. Although Bradley was on the Lakers roster for the first part of the season, he had opted out of the NBA restart and was removed from the Lakers roster for the remainder of the season. NBA players are not officially considered "Champions" unless they were actually a member of the championship roster.

We typically use on NBA.com or Basketball Reference for stats and awards data; links to these pages are literally included in the awards section of the article. Neither source considers Bradley to be a champion. (Basketball Reference) (NBA.com)

If the NBA and Basketball Reference officially credit Bradley with the championship, I think it would be okay to include it here. However, this is clearly not the case.

Sources:

- Bradley opted out of the remainder of the season on June 23rd. (ESPN)

- Bradley was removed from the roster. His empty roster spot was later filled by JR Smith on June 29th. (ESPN)

- Bradley will receive a ring from the Lakers, by courtesy only. (CBS Sports) Many NBA teams offer a ring to all players that were a member of the team for some part of the season. This is not the same as being on the championship roster.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:641:381:7810:711d:8346:d058:419e (talk) 19:06, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

How do players on the IR list during the playoffs get treated or a player who left the team like Vernon Maxwell? Morbidthoughts (talk) 18:33, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Looks like IR and two-way players still receive a championship (but this wouldn't apply to Bradley). Vernon Maxwell received a championship the year he left the team, presumably because he was on the playoff roster but left in the middle of the playoffs. Basketball Reference does consider him to be a champion in 1995, which is consistent what is shown on his Wikipedia page. On the other hand, Bradley left the team prior to the season restart and Basketball Reference doesn't consider him a champion. I keep bringing up Basketball Reference because we have historically relied on them as a source of truth, and since they are one of (if not the only) reputable sources that explicitly track awards, they should be considered the authority on this matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:641:381:7810:F057:290C:8142:C7E4 (talk) 20:18, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I wouldn't consider Basketball Reference to be the final arbiter of labeling him a champion in terms of RS. It's important to review stronger sources such as newspapers.[1] Also you may label the ring thing as a courtesy, but the Lakers and most if not all teams regard everyone's contributions to the season from the execs down to the ball boys as the criteria of who gets a ring. Championships go towards the organisation, not just the active players. The rings are just symbols of that. Morbidthoughts (talk) 23:49, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree with your point about the championship belonging to the organization, but that doesn't speak to the criteria for which we consider players to be champions in terms of legacy/resume. To be clear, calling the ring a "courtesy" was not meant to diminish the achievement; I was trying to convey that many players receive rings but are not considered to be champions (by wikipedia or other sources). For example, Demarcus Cousins was a Laker this season as well, will be offered a ring by the Lakers, but is not "officially" considered to be a champion. Additionally, players who get traded are often offered rings, but for whatever reason don't meet the criteria to be considered champions. It's not clear to me why we would not apply the same precedent in Bradley's case. If we are saying Basketball Reference is wrong to not award Bradley with the championship, then what is the standard that wikipedia uses to decide whether or not players are champions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:641:381:7810:D03:2B52:5175:D906 (talk) 00:38, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

The actual Wikipedia standard is whether multiple RS consider Bradley a champion, not just basketball-reference. We may not see these indications for a while until RS like books, newspapers, and sports news sites look back on his career. I think of the whole pandemic issue as being like a player not playing due to injury or medical leave (FMLA). That's why I had asked about the injury angle. Morbidthoughts (talk) 01:33, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

If the criteria is strictly subjective, then I suppose I can't argue against it. I will point out that there was a similar content dispute on Demarcus Cousins, however the consensus was that he is NOT a champion. A quick Google search reveals sources showing Cousins is still training with the team, was included in the champion celebration, and is eligible for a ring. Some sites even claim that he is a champion. However, wikipedia decided not to credit him with the award. It just feels inconsistent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:641:381:7810:D03:2B52:5175:D906 (talk) 01:47, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

I also don't understand how the LA times article relates to this discussion - Bradley is still part of the roster for the upcoming season but was not on playoff roster for the previous season. He is certainly an important member of the team, but the same could be said of players who are waived or traded and do not ultimately receive championship credit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:641:381:7810:D03:2B52:5175:D906 (talk) 00:43, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

They seem to attribute winning the championship to everyone on the roster. "There are so many stories of redemption, of human emotion or even just quirky notes about these players and what winning the NBA Finals meant to them." Morbidthoughts (talk) 01:28, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Actually, according to WP:NBARING it seems like we should not be attributing Bradley the championship. Neither is the case for Cousins— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:641:381:7810:3c68:21cc:cfb2:527a (talk) 08:06, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

This thread like 4 years old, but I believe Bradley should be credited with a championship. He was not "removed from the roster," he remained on the roster and the Lakers signed Smith to a "substitute contract." No, NBA.com does not credit Bradley with a championship, however, the site does not credit two-way players with championships either, and Wikipedia notably does. That is because two-way players are not eligible to play in the playoffs, however, they do remain on the roster through the playoffs, similar to Avery Bradley during the 2020 season. JAX4981 (talk) 02:39, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

@JAX4981: I've started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association § NBA champion in infobox: Two-way players and Avery Bradley. —Bagumba (talk) 06:44, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

We do not list Bradley as an "NBA champion" with the Lakers in 2020 per WP:NBARING.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8802:5c07:f100:91fd:b18f:5e76:56de (talk) 07:17, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2020

NBA champion (2020) Larstouhey (talk) 02:45, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 04:06, 18 October 2020 (UTC)