Talk:Azerbaijan

Not calling it a dictatorship is ridiculous

The previous discussion about listing it as a dictatorship lists a point about Russia not being listed as a dictatorship. Well now that has changed, and Wikipedia has agreed Russia is under an authoritarian dictatorship. I guess the war changed their minds. So why not Azerbaijan, who itself is committing an aggressive conflict which amounts to ethnic genocide against Armenians? You can find sources clearly agreeing it is a dictatorship. Here are a few: https://www.aei.org/op-eds/azerbaijans-aliyev-is-a-strategic-liability-not-an-asset/, https://hyperallergic.com/615519/artwashing-a-dictatorship/, https://evnreport.com/politics/the-dictator-has-no-clothes-aliyevs-regime-and-its-declining-oil-revenues/. Freedom House basically defines it as a dictatorship without strictly saying the dirty word: https://freedomhouse.org/country/azerbaijan. We must put the truth on here. Evil Narwhal (talk) 18:40, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

The article's lead already mentions "authoritarian leadership under the leadership of both Heydar Aliyev and his son Ilham Aliyev". While a strong case for the authoritarian nature of current Azerbaijani government can be made, going into further details would violate WP:NPOV and WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. Brandmeister^talk 22:02, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

@Golden: The concern in the discussion you cited appears to be that news articles were used which didn't call it a dictatorship. Thus I cited an academic source, a journal article in Global Politics and Strategy, which directly calls it a hereditary dictatorship akin to the Kim dynasty. 25stargeneral (talk) 16:14, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Lack of sources isn't a concern. Infoboxes reflect the official form of government, not what outside observers (no matter whether rightly or wrongly) think it is, as stated by a participant in that discussion. For further clarification on the usage of the parameter, please refer to the the template's documentation. — Golden ^talk 16:43, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

I disagree with that editor and the template documentation makes no such claim. Large-scale discussions on pages like Talk:Russia and Talk:North Korea have supported my interpretation of the purpose of the infobox. Wikipedia articles follow reliable, secondary sources in all cases. This infobox, as with all others, summarizes the body content that is sourced to reliable, independent, secondary sources. Sources are the only concern on Wikipedia. Semi-presidential republic is the official line, but it is false as considered by academics due to election fraud, suppression of the opposition, and hereditary succession. I have referred to the template documentation; all it says for that parameter is |government_type = <!--Wikilinked if link exists-->, so it does not support your assertion. You are required by Wikipedia policy to make your argument based on reliable, secondary sources. 25stargeneral (talk) 17:26, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

There should be consistency throughout all articles. If nations like Russia and North Korea are listed as dictatorships, then this article needs to be included in the same category. After all, it's simple to find sources that characterize Azerbaijan as a dictatorship. I stress again, though, that consistency is essential, and all other nation articles whose constitutional systems of governance are inconsistent with de jure should also receive the necessary adjustments. And there are many of such. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:47, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

When it comes to the infobox, the government should be as it is, "Unitary semi-presidential republic". The authoritarian nature is already included in the government and politics section. Sham elections are there, but in North Korea even sham elections are not conducted, as its leader is unelected by principle. Brandmeister^talk 08:35, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

North Korea conducts elections a couple of times each decade, and North Korea is led by the elected leader of its ruling political party. CMD (talk) 09:04, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

The NK elections are internal rather than direct, by popular vote, as pretended in some post-Soviet pseudodemocracies. Also, if I'm not mistaken, both Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un became leaders by hereditary proclamation rather than internal party elections. Brandmeister^talk 09:20, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

The elections are by direct popular vote for the legislature. Kim Jong Un won an internal party election in 2012, a few months after his father's death. CMD (talk) 11:55, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

The point is that NK's most important office, the General Secretary of the Workers' Party of Korea (equivalent to president in post-Soviet states), is not elected through direct popular vote in principle. Changing that is much less likely and harder than transforming sham elections of a president elsewhere into fair and transparent. Brandmeister^talk 12:21, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Neither is Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, that's not a point of inconsistency regarding the treatment of one pseudodemocracy or another. CMD (talk) 12:56, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

That's a red herring. Anyway, for the purpose of infobox there are WP:NPOV issues when adding "dictatorship" to certain countries. The country infobox template had a related discussion earlier and it appears that in some cases it's better to stick just to country's constitution, leaving details to article's body. Brandmeister^talk 13:48, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

We as editors cannot cite a primary source like a country's constitution or our own interpretations of one. We are bound by our policies to follow what political scientists say. NPOV means neutral with respect to what the political scientists say, it does not mean including the regime's point of view. I would check out Talk:Russia#Constitutional form of government or de facto system of government and the many similar conversations in the archives. 25stargeneral (talk) 13:55, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Major reference works, such as The World Factbook, Oxford Guide to Countries of the World or Britannica, list constitutionally defined government models in country profiles (which are equivalents of our country infoboxes). I'm not a fan of current power abuse in Azerbaijan or Russia, but per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE a country infobox should be succinct. Brandmeister^talk 16:54, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

It is a direct address to the point that was made, the opposite of a red herring. LouisAragon brought up an important point about consistency, and the apparent difference about sham elections applies to both examples LouisAragon raised, as well as this article. CMD (talk) 13:57, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

When it comes to infobox, I oppose per my rationale above, elsewhere in the article I'm ok with LouisAragon's proposal. Brandmeister^talk 16:54, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

LouisAragon has not proposed anything for unstated other parts of the article, they referred directly to the infoboxes at Russia and North Korea. CMD (talk) 16:59, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Ok, my oppose for Azerbaijan stands then. Brandmeister^talk 17:06, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree that there are sufficient citations to use dictatorship, especially compared to other country articles that are currently named as dictatorships. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 22:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I have not reached EC status, and I agree that other countries under similar conditions have been classified as authoritarian dictatorships. TheRichCapitalist (talk) 04:55, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

This article is about a country. Before imposing your personal view to this article, please proove that your sources are independent and reliable organisations. I recall international NGOs reporting Armenia's ethnic-cleansing activities in Karabakh in 1990s when Russian forces cooperated with Armenian proxies in Khojaly operation. But Armenia is still enjoying the white list. Iron Archer (talk) 18:35, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Aq Qoyunlu Qara Qoyunlu

According to the German Turkologist Gerhard Doerfer, it is very strange that the word "Turkman" still confuses Ag Goyunlu and Gara Goyunlu Turkmens. The word Turkman actually means "nomadic Oghuz"Aggoyunlu and Karagoyunlu "Turkmen" are Azerbaijanis anyway. 5.191.113.222 (talk) 15:16, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Some scientists call them Turkoman while others Turkmen. No difference, as both phrases refer to post-islamic Oghuz peoples, like modern Turkish, Azerbaijani, Turkmen.

Ak-koyunlu, Kara-koyunlu, Kayi, Kinik, Bayandur and many other names refer to Turkic tribes. Iron Archer (talk) 18:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Typo

"reintigration" should be "reintegration" (the final sentence of the section titled "Aliyev family rule, 1993–present" 185.33.186.243 (talk) 14:45, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done Beshogur (talk) 17:41, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 August 2024

Description: This page contains a spelling mistake, where it writes "... UAV'S/unmanned aerial vehicle..". Point of Error: UAV'S/unmanned aerial vehicle Correction Suggestion: UAVs / unmanned aerial vehicles Farial Mahmod (talk) 20:00, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done ⸺(Random)staplers 02:53, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The combination of the name Azerbaijan

Origin of the name Azerbaijan (Azerbaijan): By summarizing the opinions of different people given below, the origin of the name of Azerbaijan is as follows: Az - As (from the ancient tribes of the Turks) Er - Er (gentleman) Bye-bye (big) Jan-Gan (one of the Turkish place suffixes) In general, it means the living place of the brave and great Az

The name and origin of Azerbaijan according to different people:

_The name and origin of Azerbaijan (Azerbaijan) according to "Mir Ali Seydev"

Mir Ali Sayedov, a great Turkish scientist, considers the name of Azerbaijan to be related to mythological and religious factors and distinguishes and justifies this word. Az: good intention, profit, benefit, and also the name of one of the great tribes of Turks, whose name is mentioned in the inscriptions of the Orkhon Plain, even some believe that the name of the continent of Asia is derived from the name of this tribe that was scattered in most of its parts. is The word Az is preserved in the name of an ancient village called "Has" or "As" belonging to 4 thousand years ago. Ar: Man, human being, young man. This word is seen at the end of Turk clan names. Tatar (Tat man. Non-Muslim here), Khazar, Qajar, Magyar In ancient Turkish, the suffix (ar) was attached to the end of the name and assigned a person to it. The same suffix that is equivalent to (li) or (lu) in modern Turkish. Az is also the name of the people who lived in present-day Azerbaijan and eastern Turkey and ruled there. The word comes from +ar (Azar) or today's "Azer". The combination of the two words Az and Ar means "Azar" meaning a well-intentioned man and figuratively meaning a blessed tribe. This word continues to exist in another way in the name of the historical river of the Azerbaijan region, "Araz". In the rural areas of Ahar, this word is pronounced "Araz". Bai: The word Bai in Turkish language means big, rich, owner, lord, mighty, rich, powerful, powerful, wealthy, ruler, wise, etc. Gan (Qan): father, khan, king, lord and similar meanings The Turkic suffix "jan", "-ghan-", "-ghan-", "-gan-", "-kahn-" indicates places, places and geographical locations. For example, in the case of Chalagan (the name of an island in Lake Urmia), it means the place of residence of the Chala clan. Some other examples of the use of this suffix: Varzeghan, Gogan, Gorgan, Taleghan, Zangan (modern Zanjan), Sirjan, Kamijan, etc., which this suffix has changed to J Saidef means this word in its general sense as "blessed wealthy father". Most of Turk researchers agree with this theory, and every day they get a lot of evidence to prove this claim.

_The name and origin of Azerbaijan according to "Ismail Hadi"

Az/AS+R+By+Jan Az/As: It is the name of a people who lived all over Asia, and probably the name of the continent of Asia is also derived from the name of this people. Ar: It means brave person or person The name of Aras River (Araz) is also composed of two words Ar+Az Bai: Amir, Ghani, Sharif Jan: a place suffix that can be seen in the names of cities such as Baylakhan, Gogan, and Zanjan (Zangan). Therefore, the meaning of the word "Azerbaijan" is: the habitat of the As, the home of the noble people of As, the habitat of the As people.

_The name and origin of Azerbaijan according to Professor "Zahtabi"

The word "Azerbaijan" is "Atropateena" in Greek, "Atropatekan" in Armenian, and "Azerbaygan" in Persian. Atropat was the name of one of the famous generals of Azerbaijan. According to Professor Zahtabi, the word "atropate" can be broken down in the following way At (Od) + Ver-er (hero, brave) + Pot (protector) (here fire protector) Atropateen: (Land of the Fire Guardians) So the root of the word "Atropathan" is as follows: Od + Er + Pat + An (plural suffix borrowed from Turkish to Persian and Armenian): It means the land of fire protectors. After the conquest of the Arabs, Atropaten has become "Azerbaijan".

_The name and origin of Azerbaijan according to professor "Parviz Yakani Zare"

Professor Parviz Yakani Zare, a well-known historian, says the following about the name of Azerbaijan: The word Azerbaijan originally comes from "Hazar Baygan" composed of "Haaz+Ar+Bay+Gan or Arabized Qan means John". "Haaz or Haas" is the name of a tribe of ancient Turks and it is mentioned as "Orkhon Yeni Sei" in the old writings. Some researchers, including "Barthold", consider it probable that the Haaz are related to the "Turuk" tribes, who are introduced by Assyrian inscriptions from 1400 BC as the inhabitants around Urmi Lake. Also, Haaz in Turkish means Ughur and good intention "R" is of Turkish origin and means human. This word is attached to other words as a suffix and creates the name of tribes. Such as: (Avar-Khazar or Khazar-Magyar or Magyar-Qajar or Qajar and...). Hazar means a people and a tribe, which later became "Azer" with slight changes in Persian and Arabic. Because the person Zarathustra (in Turkish means the one who fully understands) and his mother "Daghdo" (in Turkish means the one who gives birth) and their god "Ahar Majda" (in Turkish means the highest and highest human spirit) belong to the culture and people of Turks. have been in the region and according to the sanctity of fire in Zoroastrian religion, later this word was known to be related to fire among the Persians, which is not very true, although the sun and fire are very respected in the Turkan Sakha rituals. And they were known as the saviors of mankind, because it was with the help of light and fire that the Turks were able to burn the iron barrier that Zulqarnain had built against them and enter this world. "Bay" or "Bay" or "Big, Beyk" means rich, wealthy, chief, tribe, ruler, etc. On the other hand, "Baymaq" in Turkish means development and progress. "Gan" in the Turkish language has changed to "Qan" (and in the Arabic language to John) by accepting phonetic changes and has many meanings such as father, Khaqan, etc., and "Qan" in Turkish is a passive sign with emphasis and exaggeration. It is (Chalishkhan) and Baiqan means development of Yaf Yashar faimi (talk) 19:17, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

And what do you propose to change or add exactly? Mellk (talk) 08:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)