Talk:BCG vaccine

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Painful

Some mention needs to be made of the painful swelling that results from a BCQ injection Nil Einne 23:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Can someone please add pictures of the BCG vaccine scars, and maybe explain how that differ from a smallpox vaccine scars? Sn50 (talk) 23:29, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Name

BCG is expanded to Bacille Calmette-Guérin (not bacillus) even in the English language literature (and the American literature). Look at (Comstock, G. W. (1994). "The International Tuberculosis Campaign: A pioneering venture in mass vaccination and research". Clinical infectious diseases : an official publication of the Infectious Diseases Society of America. 19 (3): 528–540. doi:10.1093/clinids/19.3.528. PMID 7811874.) or search PubMed. BCG is not a member of the genus "Bacillus" (such as anthrax), although descriptively it is a rod-shaped bacterium and may therefore be called a "bacillus" (small "b"). I propose to move the article and all the redirects to bacille Calmette-Guérin. --Gak 21:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Although I had never heard of Bacillus for BCG, a PubMed test confirms both spellings, with Bacillus being more commonly used than Bacille, even in core clinical journals and in reviews. I've adapted the intro but I don't think we should move and rename all the redirects. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 19:51, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

BCG/Heaf test

Is the second picture an actual representation of the BCG vaccine? I am certain that it is not the case an is, in fact, the Heaf Test which one is administered with [i]before[/i] the main injection. Is this so? Or is it the case that the combination of the two is also called the BCG? If not then it is misleading and should be removed/the caption should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.13.173 (talk) 07:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The author of the picture here, and the answer is YES; it is actually for BCG vaccination "in Japan", not for Heaf test. It was obtained as a set of "lyophylized BCG vaccine with immunizer" from Japan BCG Laboratory (unfortunately English page is under construction.) In Japan, BCG is administered by the method so-call "multiple puncture method" with this apparatus for a long (for example, you can see the name "kuchiki's needle" in this article) to prevent a local skin reaction. I know, of course, this multipuncture method is not a worldwide standard; although trials for multipuncture method using an apparatus such as 'Heaf gun' in other countries are tested or developping (e.g. [1]). I uploaded this picture mainly for the explanation of BCG in ja article, or the explanation of the variety of the vaccination method in other lang version. So, I wonder if it is "representable" for the general explanation in other language version, too. (This was the reason why I'd replaced the top image in this revision) --Y tambe (talk) 08:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to request a picture of the "characteristic scar" left by the BCG vaccination, which is mentioned in the article is often used as proof of vaccination. If this scar's appearance is different in Japan, that would be interesting content to add as well. C. Scott Ananian (talk) 16:06, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Here's an example from a non-free source: https://www.healthline.com/health/smallpox-vaccine-scar#vs-bcg-with-photo C. Scott Ananian (talk) 16:10, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Adjuvant

There is no mention of an Adjuvant added to the bovine tuberculosis bacillus preparation. 79.76.193.4 (talk) 14:40, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Variable efficacy?

This page was mentioned in Richard Lehman's BMJ blog (re: The BMJ 9 August 2014 Vol 349) in connection with a recent meta-analysis (PMID 25097193) reporting "evidence that BCG protects against tuberculosis infection [as well as disease] from multiple epidemiologically different settings and independent of the type of interferon γ release assay used to detect infection" [2]. 86.164.164.123 (talk) 13:03, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes have updated TB. Have not updated this article yet. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 22:49, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

I've actually already updated this User:Jmh649! Check out my last edit on this page! Pishoygouda (talk) 01:41, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

BCG emergency tested in non-mandatory countries e.g. AUS, NL, for unintended anti-COVID19 efficiency, as data indicates post-1954 mandatory BCG is protecting population in Hungary.

Article in hungarian language: https://index.hu/techtud/2020/03/30/a_bcg-oltas_enyhitheti_a_koronavirus-betegseg_tuneteit/

Australian article: https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/healthcare-workers-to-trial-tuberculosis-vaccine-f

Article about the Netherlands: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/can-century-old-tb-vaccine-steel-immune-system-against-new-coronavirus# 84.236.41.174 (talk) 17:03, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Newest publication: ten-fold (10x) increase in COVID-19 mortality observed among countries without a BCG regime, versus thoroughly vaccinated countries.

https://www.urotoday.com/recent-abstracts/covid-19-and-genitourinary-cancers/120475-bcg-vaccination-policies-make-a-ten-times-difference-in-covid-19-incidence-mortality-new-study.html

"BCG vaccination policies make a ten times difference in COVID-19 incidence, mortality: New study from UK and US. 2020 Apr 06" 94.21.121.60 (talk) 14:40, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

This particular study hasn't been published, yet. -Roxy, the PROD. . wooF 15:08, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-52228932

BBC News - Mysterious coronavirus lull in South Africa: the post-apartheid failed state suffers from incompetence and massive corruption within the government, poverty among the population and extreme high homicide rates on the streets, ripening it for the contagion. Yet the anticipated "tsunami" of coronavirus infections has yet to materialise. One explanation offered is the compulsory anti-tuberculosis BCG vaccine that almost all citizens of SA are given at birth (90.5% national covarage, 98% for Western Cape). 94.21.121.60 (talk) 19:00, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

BADASS clinical trials video FAQ: bladder cancer treatment BCG vaccine stock used to see if it also protects against COVID-19.

https://www.urotoday.com/video-lectures/covid-19-and-genitourinary-cancers/video/1716-the-bactir-trial-bcg-vaccination-against-sars-cov-2-to-protect-health-care-workers-by-enhanced-trained-immune-responses.html

The BADAS Trial: BCG Vaccination Against SARS-CoV-2 to Protect Health Care Workers by Enhanced Trained Immune Responses - Ashish Kamat, Andrew DiNardo, Paul Hegarty 94.21.121.60 (talk) 20:57, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

19th century, Italian trial vaccine for tuberculosis ?

At present the "History" section of this article claims that: "In the late 19th century, clinical trials using M. bovis were conducted in Italy with disastrous results, because M. bovis was found to be just as virulent as M. tuberculosis."

I haven't found any confirmation that this vaccine trial occurred.

Furthermore, much of the original text in this section was copied word-for-word from this source:

Nagelkerke, Nico J. D. (2012). Courtesans and Consumption: How sexually transmitted infections drive tuberculosis epidemics. Delft, Netherlands: Uitgeverij Eburon. p. 63.

The author provided no source for his claim that during the 19th century, Italy tested a trial vaccine for tuberculosis.

This same passage also claimed that Villemin discovered bovine tuberculosis in 1854. That claim is false. (That claim was also not sourced.)

VexorAbVikipædia (talk) 19:10, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Mandatory in the UK

The table shows that the Vaccine was mandatory in the UK, however on checking the four links provided, none state that the vaccine was mandatory only that it was offered to all school children in the UK between the dates listed (I've also done a quick search to see if I can find any reference of it ever being mandatory in the UK and have been unable to do so). Therefore I have changed this to show as not being mandatory in the past in the UK. White&BlueWasp (talk) 12:02, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I think this is a very poor action. I don't recall being given the choice when I was a child. It was also given to my sisters and to my parents. I don't recall anyone opting out or being given the choice to opt out. I was very surprised to see "N/A" on the main page. I believe it was to all intents and purposes mandatory for schoolchildren in the UK. The same probably applies to other countries as well. John2o2o2o (talk) 22:16, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

This is correct. In other countries in the table which are ticked as mandatory, the vaccine was 'offered' on the same terms as it was in the UK. This is supported by the already existing cited references. I'm reverting it back to the previous correct data. --Morlark (talk) 18:28, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

I have just changed the UK to never mandatory. None of the current citations stated that it was mandatory and I have added a reference stating that it was not. I came to the talk page to start a discussion about a bigger concern was that history of the BCG vaccine in Europe has been summarized in a single table categorized as mandatory or not.

Now having read the above comments, I think there are deeper issues:

1. There seems to be a lack of clarity about the word mandatory, which will not help readers. This lack of clarity is not limited to Wikipedia: here MacDonald and colleagues list at least five definitions of mandatory.
2. Morlark seems to suggest above that vaccination wasn't actually mandatory anywhere but this seems to be incorrect. This table from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control clearly distinguishes between countries where BCG is recommended and where it is mandatory.
3. Even this does not seem to be the whole story. Presumably due to different definitions of mandatory, references for Slovenia vary between stating vaccination is recommended and giving details of fines for not receiving it.

I therefore suggest that the use of the word mandatory should be removed from the column headings or that the table should have several more columns. We firstly need to find a way to discuss that BCG vaccination recommendations have changed over time regardless of mandates, and where we discuss mandates, we need to be clear what the mandate means, for example fines vs exclusions from school. --Mgp28 (talk) 11:26, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

References

Manufacturing

The manufacturing section is very outdated and very incomplete. Here is a 2018 article that names all the manufacturers as of then. The article now mentions the Dianon and Powderject products which are are long, long gone and shouldn't be mentioned anymore... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X17317486 72.227.185.148 (talk) 04:07, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Giving current human vaccines intravenously

https://ajvaccines.com/products/bcg-vaccine-aj-vaccines/

This BCG vaccine with a Danish BCG strain is used for example in Finland and UK.

If there will be a clinical trial on humans or macaques, could they use the current commercial vaccine intravenously? If not, why not? Do ordinary vaccines against common human diseases contain something insuitable for intravenous use?

128.214.129.34 (talk) 21:02, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

It is used intravenously in clinical trials, for instance here. Ruslik_Zero 11:42, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2024 and 26 April 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Allybio0258 (article contribs).

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False Positive Mantoux test

somewhere it should be noted that previous vaccination with BCG will produce a false positive Mantoux. 2601:409:200:F4F0:7110:67FA:F16E:76FB (talk) 22:49, 12 August 2024 (UTC)