Talk:Balakən

Requested moves

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the pages at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 20:06, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

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• Balakən → Balakan
• Ağstafa → Aghstafa
• Ağcabədi → Aghjabadi

– The all Azerbaijani city names should be moved to English version as it is official versions. Moreover, there is more results in English version of it and some Azerbaijani letters is unknown to readers, which will cause problems in reading the article such as "Balakən". Xoncha (talk) Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/NovaSkola 09:49, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

• Comment. Balakan is a dab page; it doesn't redirect here. Dekimasuよ! 11:24, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose - as with all the other moves. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:36, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Rather than single-handedly making an undiscussed bulk moves that affects the stable titling of an entire article corpus, note that recent English books do use Turkic diacritics for Azerbaijani the same as en.wp historically has done for all Turkic geo articles: [http://www.amazon.com/Lonely-Planet-Georgia-Armenia-Azerbaijan/dp/174179403X/ Lonely Planet Georgia, Armenia & Azerbaijan uses Turkic diacritics] [http://www.amazon.com/Azerbaijan-Excursions-Georgia-Mark-Elliott/dp/190586423X/ Azerbaijan Excursions Guide uses Turkic script] etc. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:43, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

• Support. ə is not a letter in English. Red Slash 00:07, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

As with previous RMs, it is in fact a letter in English Lonely Planet etc. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:43, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 29 November 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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• Balakən → Balakan
• Balakan → Balakan (disambiguation)

– Big enough city with established English WP:COMMONNAME, so there's no need to keep it non-romanized. "Balakan" itself is a disambiguation page so that page should be moved to "Balakan (disambiguation)" — CuriousGolden (T·C) 13:49, 29 November 2020 (UTC) —Relisted. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 20:51, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Note: as shown above, Balakan is a dab page title with significant content and so is ineligible as a "new" title unless it is also renamed. This request has been altered to reflect that fact. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 16:16, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose first no benefit from misspelling it. Waiting for evidence on second move In ictu oculi (talk) 14:01, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

It's not a misspell, it's transliteration. I usually find it appropriate to transliterate names of large cities/towns and keep villages as non-transliterated per WP:UE. And also, evidence for what? I'm asking for it to be moved to a name with disambiguation, so I'm having hard time understanding what evidence you're looking for. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 15:05, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Evidence that it is primary topic mainly, because page views suggest otherwise. Re the spelling maybe you could browse the Azerbaijan geo articles. They all use full font spelling. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:33, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Also supported by this, and the state media. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 18:26, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

@Solavirum: I'm not sure that those two websites are WP:RS for fonts. (1) could you please explain the red line and the blue line here. What makes the blue line higher than the red line in your view when the red line is higher than the blue most days. Also (2) do you want to remove ə from all Azerbaijian articles or just this one? In ictu oculi (talk) 10:31, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

I only want to transliterate Azeri names from large cities and towns. Villages can stay as they are. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 12:37, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose; no indication is given that this is the primary topic for the title. -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

  A simple google search reveals that city of "Balakən" is the primary topic for word "Balakan". Only other "Balakan"s are 2 tiny villages in Iran, which are obviously much less relevant than this large city. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 12:58, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

  The "simple" search should be included in the proposal then. A "simple" massviews check indicates that the city and the district are at comparable levels of being sought by readers. (BTW, Balakən is "romanized", since it's in the Latin script. "Balakan" is anglicized, but I get that's what you mean. And I agree that WP:UE supports using the anglicized version here, but it may need to be qualified as opposed to going to the base name.) -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:14, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose per JHunterJ, but would support Balakən → Balakan, Azerbaijan. As far as the general topic of such place names is concerned, a just-closed RM at Talk:Charektar#Requested move 4 December 2020 unanimously [five votes] supported the move Çərəktar → Charektar. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:21, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

• "Balakan, Azerbaijan" doesn't really help with the primary topic issue you're concerned with. The main problem JHunterJ brought up is that "Balakan" is used both for the city and the district, which are both in Azerbaijan. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 07:54, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

The existing main title header for one English Wikipedia entry is Balakan District and the proposed header for the entry under discussion is Balakan, Azerbaijan. Neither header suggests interference with the other. It would make no difference even if we moved Balakan District → Balakan District, Azerbaijan since anyone simply typing "Balakan" would arrive at the Balakan disambiguation page where any uncertainty would be sorted out. Tens (hundreds?) of thousands of such similarly-titled headers already exist, especially where US city and county names are the same. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:01, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 13 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Closing this essentially as a formality. These RMs were messy, they were controversial, they got Golden blocked for socking, and it's time for them to come off the bottom dredges of RM's backlog. There's no possible way to say a consensus in any form is obvious here. NSU is welcome to start a proposal to move to Balakən alone. (closed by non-admin page mover) Vaticidalprophet 15:51, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

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Balakən, Azerbaijan → Balakan, Azerbaijan – Move to "Balakan, Azerbaijan" per WP:UE/WP:COMMONNAME/WP:ENGLISH. Proof of anglicized name being the common name:

Results from Google News: Balakan: 1,210 Balakən: 1

Results from Google Scholar: Balakan: 253 Balakən: 45

Individual reliable sources referring to the city as Balakan: Human Rights Watch, RFE/RL, RFE/RL, OC Media.

This is the same name but an anglicized version. Unlike other small villages, this is a fairly large town, which has made a lot of appearances in English-language media, in most of which, "Balakan" has been used much more, establishing its WP:COMMONNAME. I'd also like to ask the closing admin to give more attention to the arguments being made rather than the vote counts, as there are people who go over each RM and repeat unrelated policies as an "Oppose" argument. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 06:21, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

• Please stop again per WP:MODERNPLACENAME. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:05, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

  Copy-pasting an irrelevant policy to every RM about cities isn't a great argument. WP:MODERNPLACENAME are for when the name of the city has been officially changed to a new name. This is not the case here as "Balakan" is the same name as "Balakən" but an anglicized version, which WP:UE tells us to use. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 13:20, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm just assuming that any other editor who takes the trouble to look at WP:RS books since 2015 such as Lonely Planet will see the same thing as in the other RMs. We have 1000s of Azerbaijan geo articles, like Turkey geo articles they use the local Latin font. This is just a fact. Picking at the odd article from this 1000 plus geos to try and add them to list of English exonyms is a job that will take years. The RMs you've already started aren't getting support, why start another one? In ictu oculi (talk) 23:46, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Lonely Planet isn't an WP:RS, it's not on the perennial sources list and it definitely isn't more reliable or relevant than Human Rights Watch or Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty sources I've provided. As I've already said multiple times, I don't plan on anglicizing names of small villages, only towns/centres and only if their anglicized name is the accepted common name. Random IPs and users like you making an oppose vote with a random, unrelated policies isn't "not getting support", this is WP:NOTAVOTE. The closing admin will most likely have the ability to understand which arguments are stronger. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 08:37, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support per WP:UE and the sufficient sourcing provided by CuriousGolden. Gnominite (talk) 17:49, 14 March 2021 (UTC) CU-confirmed sock, please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/CuriousGolden --Blablubbs|talk 16:21, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:DIACRITICS.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:39, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

  Note that the user above has copy-pasted the same comment mentioning a completely irrelevant policy to every single Requested Moves of mine.

  The first sentence from that policy:

  The use of modified letters (such as accents or other diacritics) in article titles is neither encouraged nor discouraged; when deciding between versions of a word which differ in the use or non-use of modified letters, follow the general usage in reliable sources that are written in the English language (including other encyclopedias and reference works). The policy on using common names and on foreign names does not prohibit the use of modified letters, if they are used in the common name as verified by reliable sources.

  See above to know which name English language reliable sources use. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 20:49, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME and to be consistent with Balakan District. Vpab15 (talk) 18:36, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose and move to Balakən which already redirects here. No such user (talk) 12:32, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 5 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Universal support this time around. (non-admin closure) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 17:30, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

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Balakən, Azerbaijan → Balakən – Balakən is already a redirect to this page, the ",Azerbaijan" disambiguation is unnecessary — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 08:54, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 13:57, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

• Hi, there are 3 previous RMs about this article's title. So it's not uncontroversial. Dr. Vogel (talk) 11:07, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

  How is moving from one redirect to another controversial? It's the same name without the unnecessary disambiguation. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 13:59, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

• Speedy move I've no issues with the move. ─ The Aafī on Mobile ^(talk) 16:36, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:04, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:49, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
• while the correct spelling is needed, older books still show Balakan, Azerbaijan as a thing. Not sure that removing Azerbaijan helps anyone. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:15, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
• Support as the title with ə is unique without the country. --Seggallion (talk) 16:14, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.