Talk:Battle of Ratan

Untitled

This battle wasn't a total Russian victory when the second day's battle is taken into consideration (and let me say that, contrary to statements in this article, the two battles are generally not taken as one decisive encounter; if it were it would be a decisive Russian victory because the Swedish army was the one that withdrew), but it definately wasn't a "marginal Swedish victory". This unequivocal bias is so typical of this website. My opinion is that if you take part in it, you immediately label yourself an idiot and completely uneducated.

"http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/battles/c_finnish.html" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.241.59.49 (talk) 15:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

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Yes, this is true, the article has been updated. The resulting outcome from both battles can be seen as a marginal victory for the Swedes as it clearly improved the positions in the negotiation. However, the swedish army was retreating and thus was the losers of the battle (tactically), but since the Russians were also retreating north after having suffered heavy casualties in the fighting, the outcome was not really a clear Russian victory either.

What could be said is that the Russians had a marginal pyrrhic victory, but due to this the strategical gain was for the Swedes, though not as much that had been hoped for initially.

So, in effect, and as was written in the article as well, the battle of Savar was clearly a Russian victory, but the subsequent engagements at Ratan was clearly a Swedish tactical victory (i.e. the Russians were repelled and the Swedish army could board the ships). Not unlike the British-Franco victorious defeat of Dunkirk (though in a lot smaller scale).

The noting of marginal Swedish victory was summing the two battles together, and was with respect to the total strategical outcome, not the tactical outcome.

This is confusing, so it now say marginal russian victory and clarifies the strategical situation afterwards in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.57.75 (talk) 15:39, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

recent edits and casualties

There is a book called "svedish battles" ISBN: 9146210873, it quotes the casualties at Ratan for the Russians as 150, and the Sävar casulties as 1600 (600 dead, 1000 wounded).

The Internet link quoting 3200 casualties on the Russian side is not reliable.

It is discussable and probably a good idea to have the both battles outcomes listed separately. I.e. Sävar: Russian victory, Ratan: Swedish victory, instead of only having the total outcome as a marginal Swedish victory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.105.57.75 (talk) 23:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Mikhailevsky-Danilensky's "Description of the Finnish War on Land and Sea in 1808 and 1809" (Описание Финляндской войны на сухом пути и на море в 1808 и 1809 годах) gives the Russian losses as Major-General [Semyon Stepanovich] Gotovtsov and 4 officers killed; Major-General [Ilya Ivanovich] Alekseyev and 33 officers wounded; 1,500 enlisted killed and wounded, 150 of which were list at Ratan, the rest at Savar. He approximates the Swedish losses as 2000 killed and wounded, 270 captured, and 300 wounded who were abandoned in the retreat and later captured as well. You can read the passage here (in Russian): ::http://www.runivers.ru/bookreader/book9806/#page/504/mode/1up

65.95.67.65 (talk) 04:18, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

I made an oopsie (article move)

I moved the article to the wrong name and now I can't move it back... I have requested a move at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests to Battle of Ratan (original name was "Battle of Ratan–Sävar") since I want to separate the article into two (since these are two different battles, not one). If any admin sees this please consider moving the article to Battle of Ratan, or, at least move it back to Battle of Ratan–Sävar (so I can request another name change from there). Imonoz (talk) 03:22, 25 August 2020 (UTC)