Talk:Bec de corbin

Irrelevant information

Moving this here from the article:

It could also refer to the first surgical tool used to grasp a blood vessel prior to ligating it developed by Ambroise Pare.

Editor Huckfinne seems to be attempting to change this article about a Medieval European pole weapon into a disambiguation page for "things known as a bec de corbin". If the subject of his contribution (an early surgical instrument) is noteworthy, a disambiguation page should be created ("Bec de corbin") to list both meanings, with only the pole weapon linking to this article, and this article moved to "Bec de corbin (weapon)". If the subject of his contribution is not noteworthy, then it should be allowed to die here in talk. 12.233.146.130 (talk) 22:44, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

References

no image of weapon

Article has no image of weapon, can anyone get to a museum and take a photo of this weapon? -EarthFurst (talk) 15:12, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Merge with Lucerne Hammer

I plan to merge the article Lucerne hammer into this lemma. See talk page there. Korn (talk) 10:02, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Disagree. The Lucerne hammer has a distinctive split head, and a usually longer spike. It also came later. I5-X600K (talk) 16:06, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

@I5-X600K: How does that qualify it as a separate weapon rather than just a specific variant of the bec de corbin? One-handed warhammers, having both the central stud and four-pronged variant, are not given different articles for each head type either. Korn (talk) 08:36, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Both the entries of Lucerne hammer and Bec du corbin have the same article reference. In the very first section:

"Poleaxe" is the medieval name used by the English for the long-handled footman's warhammer, regardless of whether it actually had an axe head or not. These same weapons could be called bec-de-corbin, or bec-de-faucon in French (depending on the shape of the back spike,) or fussstreithammer in German, or martello d'arme in Italian. Lucerne hammer is a more modern (19th century) name that may include many of the same weapons. The name derives from the Swiss town of Lucerne where a particular poleaxe with a long-pronged hammer head was very popular.

It makes sense to merge the two entries with the poleaxe entry. People see some slightly different weapon and think it deserves a separate name (in this case: a poleaxe with a hammer and pick, instead of axe and hammer), while it is simply a variety of the same weapon.2A02:1810:2F1F:E300:95D0:D762:FC85:FA1D (talk) 17:18, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

My understanding is that pollaxes (or sometimes "poleaxes") were much shorter (greatsword-length; about the same height as the wielder) and used by heavy infantry; in game terms a pollaxe is like a greataxe rather than a weapon with significant reach, as a 7-8 foot long polearm like a halberd or lucerne hammer have - those were used by more-moderately armored infantry who were protected more by their weapons' longer reach.

Similarly, bec de corbins were essentially the "greathammer;" more like pollaxes and greatswords than lucerne hammers in terms of length, and often were referred to as pollaxes (even when they had no axe bit). I believe the image currently on the page is of a lucerne hammer rather than a bec de corbin. Stygian Emperor (talk) 00:57, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

I would add that a pollaxe is a knightly weapon designed to battle other well-armoured knights on foot. Pollaxes were generally more expensive to make, consisting out of different parts, and quite often well-ornamented. Pollaxes were indeed on the shorter spectrum of polearms as they were designed for hand-to-hand combat, using the axe, hammmer, pick or top or bottom spike to circumvent the armour of knights. Any longer shafts would impair the ability to swing it fast enough. Other polearms like the halberd, pike or bill were used against cavalry and could be swung if choking the shaft.

Matt Easton of Schola Gladiatora is a HEMA instructor and historical weapon expert and recently made an extensive overview of all polearms. He also mentions that a pollaxe (starting at 30:11) doesn't necessarily has an axe blade, and puts the "bec de corbin" and Lucerne hammer in the same category as a pollaxe. The only real historical "greathammer" was the mallet (or maul). You can also read the transcript of Le Jeu de la Hache (The Play of the Axe), which mentions the bec de faucon as a part of the hache (or axe), while the hache consists of a mail (or hammer) and bec de faucon (so having no axe blade at all). If you've difficulty imagining what the author refers to, in this blog you've an image of a hache with the different names.2A02:1810:2F1F:E300:FCCA:CDF2:A4C6:1D6A (talk) 13:30, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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• Bec de Corbin horizontal.jpg

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Bec de Corbin horizontal.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:52, 13 April 2022 (UTC)