Talk:Benham Rise

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Requested move 23 May 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: MOved as proposed. There is consensus to move to Benham Rise, but no consensus yet to move to Philippine Rise.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:34, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

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Philippine Rise/Benham Plateau → Benham Rise – neologism. The "Philippine Rise" name has yet to achieve common name usage yet, similar to Czechia, Artsakh Republic or West Philippine Sea. Under international law and the United Nations, it's common name is still known as "Benham Rise". The proper requested moves process was also not followed. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 03:46, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

• Move to Philippine Rise. This is no different from other LGUs and regions under the jurisdiction of the Philippines that underwent a name change through a Philippine act or ordinance such as Bulakan, Sultan Sumagka or Datu Montawal. I don't think WP:COMMONNAME applies in this case of administrative divisions, the Philippine Rise being a region or undersea region. Also, there is the Taiping Island precedent where an island that is de facto administered by a country follows the name given by that country. Unlike Taiping Island however, Philippine Rise is not contested by other countries. Philippine Rise is also not an international geographic feature, or on international borders, unlike South China Sea.--RioHondo (talk) 04:31, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

• Comment As stated in the request "Philippine Rise" is a neologism that needs time and contemplation before it can be accepted. Much like Czechia or the Republic of Artsakh, entities covered by international law needs the consent of people from other nations before they can be named. The usage outside the Philippines is still the name "Benham Rise". This is unlike local units which do not necessarily need to deal with foreign actors in using their preferred name. The "West Philippine Sea" naming controversy is the best contrast to this which is still recently called South China Sea. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 04:41, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Administrative division or not, this is no different from Mount McKinley where the sovereign has sole jurisdiction over the naming of any of its regions or landforms within its uncontested borders.--RioHondo (talk) 04:55, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Denali was, is, and continues to be the name used by the indigenous peoples prior to the United States so it is apples to oranges. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 04:59, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME in Alaskan language maybe but certainly not in the English language where these articles are. Same application of a government act or order to use its official new name. :)--RioHondo (talk) 05:02, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Denali was settled long ago and so is Miangas and this too will be settled, maybe... in a hundred years. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 05:05, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing up Miangas as this is exactly what this is all about. A geographic feature or landform given a new name which is different from what the documents in the UNCLOS award uses (Palmas). Which is basically the norm in most awards and transfer of sovereignty. It uses the name given by the new sovereign.--RioHondo (talk) 09:01, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

• Move to Philippine Rise. Since an area has already been claimed and named by a sovereign entity (which, might I add, has had long historical ties to it) conformant to and not breaking any established laws (a signed executive order, nonetheless), and which as of the date of the signed order has no existing international disputing claims, (since I don't know international law) is it still part of international protocol that it has to be announced and has to receive recognition (verbatim or otherwise) from international entities (especially those bodies whose official pronouncements/declarations aren't non-legally binding)? Heran et Sang'gres (talk) 07:43, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

• Comment. A problem in the name "Philippine Rise" is that it violates the guidelines recentism and too soon. There has yet to have enough time for the dust to settle and the name to be established. Because the ownership of this entity was resolved by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, supporting documents deposited regarding this case hold merit. And in those documents the name "Benham Rise" is used. The mere fact that only a so-called "executive order" renamed it should be treated with a grain of salt. Unless the name were to be used in the Constitution of the Philippines or the Congress were to establish a new law renaming it, this should stay the same. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 08:45, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

FYI, it was an executive decree that named the islands surrounding the Pagasa Island as the Kalayaan Island Group which also created its namesake municipality.1. It was also an executive order that renamed certain places in the Philippines like Garchitorena, Camarines Sur2 and Gamay, Northern Samar3. Philippine executive orders are good as laws.--RioHondo (talk) 08:51, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Time is an issue here. The encyclopedia is not news. There has yet enough time for the new name to catch on. No decree can change that. The vast majority of sources still use the name "Benham Rise" like this one from the The Los Angeles Times published the next day. People are simply ignoring this as it should be. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 17:40, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

• Support Benham Rise as proposed. It is the most common of the suggested options (see Google News: "Benham Rise" vs. "Benham Plateau" vs. "Philippine Rise"). The new name "Philippine Rise" may be the better title in the future (per WP:NAMECHANGES, we look more closely at sources published after a name has changed to determine what's common) but so far it's not clear that more sources are going to use the new name. Either way, the most important thing is to move away from "Benham Plateau", which is the least used of the options.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:35, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.