Talk:Bop Till You Drop

32 track???

According to the Digital audio article, this album was mixed directly to a 2-track recorder. (no 32 tracks) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 19:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the confusion lies with the fact that the system used to record this album, 3M's "Digital Audio Mastering System" (check this link for more info: [1] ), consisted of two recorders: a 32-track machine for studio recording, and a companion 4-track machine for mixdown/mastering... I'm assuming both of them might of been employed in the recording of this album... misternuvistor (talk) 09:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

IIRC side two opens with some very noticeable tape hiss, suggesting that there was analogue tape somewhere in there. The original copies in the UK were stickered 'Rocks first digital album' until I pointed out the hiss to the record company. Delverie (talk) 11:55, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 2 October 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved DrStrauss talk 19:45, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

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Bop till You Drop → Bop Till You Drop – Fixed album title to all initial caps. Apesbrain (talk) 21:50, 2 October 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. DrStrauss talk 17:31, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose. We don't capitalize short prepositions (five-letter rule, MOS:CAPS, thus "with" and "to" but "Against" and "Toward"). Yes, it's arbitrary, but it's our rule and we've stuck to it in RM after RM, especially with regard to song and album titles, which an inordinate number of users want to overcapitalize to mimic the cover logo (against MOS:TM and MOS:TITLE also).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  01:50, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
• Support—Ngram viewer shows no downcasing at all (up to 2008 and in books). Tony (talk) 11:24, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

  The music press (and people from that sector writing books) follow the AP Stylebook and other journalism manuals, which have a four-letter rule. If we upper case this, people will next try to re-lititgate all the RMs about "like" as a preposition, then proceed to "with" and "from".  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  20:04, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

• Support per MOS:CT. Till can have different grammatical functions: it can be a verb, noun, preposition or conjunction. If it is used as a preposition, as in "From Dusk till Dawn", then it must indeed be lowercased according to MOS:CT. In "Bob Till You Drop", however, Till is a subordinating conjunction that joins two clauses, and MOS:CT prescribes that subordinating conjunctions are capitalized. Darkday (talk) 00:38, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
  • @SMcCandlish: Can you please comment on the suggestion that this is a subordinating conjunction? —BarrelProof (talk) 17:55, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

  An argument could be made that this is a subordinating conjunction, if you take the "understood" expansion of the sentence as something like "You should bop, until you have dropped". In the short version we actually have, it seems to be a preposition to me, not distinct from "bop until exhausted". Prepositions are not limited to preceding noun phrases; They stared at each other without speaking (example from OxfordDictionaries.com [2] (that's using a gerund rather than a participle like exhausted, but "noun-ized verbals" all behave pretty similarly); We lived there till recently (adapted from our own Preposition article), showing use before an adverb. "You drop" is not an independent clause here (it would be as an emphatic command e.g. from a police officer: "You, drop!"), but the meaning here is descriptive of a condition, and is completely different (i.e., "drop" is not clearly a verb taking "you" as a subject; it seems to be a compression of "you have/you've dropped", where have/-ve is the actual verb and dropped is a participle, with the compressed result acting like a noun phrase, a label for a future condition of having dropped). By contrast, a subordinating conjunction is clearly being used in "I'll wait till she arrives". I just went over about a dozen pages on subordinating conjunctions. and the examples all show an independent clause after the conjunction. I'm thus inclined to treat this as a questionable edge case that should presume prepositional until proven subordinating. I'm also aware that linguistic opinions on syntactic questions like this are not fixed and shift over time. If there's a consensus I've missed in modern linguistics that this kind of construction is subordinating even when the clause is not independent I'll be happy to go with that flow.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  23:38, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Oxford Dictionaries has the example sentence you don't know what you can achieve until you try (for the use of "until" as conjunction), and Collins English Dictionary has until you change, you can't go out, which can be turned around: you can't go out until you change. Isn't that quite similar to "... until you drop"? You wouldn't use "you change" as a standalone sentence either. So I think "you drop" is a clause after all: it has a subject and a verb, which clearly sets it apart from cases like "(till) dawn", "(till) recently" or "(without) speaking". I agree with you that "you drop" is not an independent clause, but I think it's a dependent clause. The Wikipedia article subordinating conjunction states "Subordinating conjunctions [...] are conjunctions that join an independent clause and a dependent clause". So in this case, "bop" would be the independent clause (it can be seen as a command, "Bop!"), and "you drop" would be the dependent clause. Darkday (talk) 22:08, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you [SMcCandlish] for the well though-out commentary. My expertise on the matter is far inferior to yours, but – for what it's worth – I support your view that "till" is a preposition here, and I therefore oppose the proposed uppercasing per MOS:CT. —BarrelProof (talk) 01:04, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Actually my view is that "till" is not a preposition here, but a subordinating conjunction, which should be uppercased. Was my comment so unclear? Darkday (talk) 17:37, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm sorry about the confusion. Your comments were not that unclear – the confusion was entirely mine. My reply was written to the comments by SMcCandlish, not to the comments by you. I'm sorry for writing them in a confusing way. I inserted "[SMcCandlish]" above to try to clarify. I think the "till you drop" is all a rather unified phrase (as in "bop until exhausted") rather than having a subordinating structure. But as I said, I am not so confident of my abilities on that question. —BarrelProof (talk) 00:44, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose. "Till" is a preposition here, and our rule is to downcase those with fewer than five letters, as stated above.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:04, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose – based on previous cases, I'd treat our composition title guideline a lot like our trademark guideline: choose, from among forms in sources, one that most closely resembles our house style. In this case, several sources, including All Music Guide: The Definitive Guide to Popular Music, use the lowercase till; so it's OK (based on my agreement that it's more like a preposition than a conjunction). Probably we should re-write our guidance to say the same about conjunctions (we lowercase "and" and "or", yes?). Dicklyon (talk) 04:18, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Title

There is no other article named "Bop Till You Drop". There is only the song of that name on the Rick Springfield album Hard to Hold. Should this title article be trimmed to just "Bop Till You Drop" or to "Bop Till You Drop (album)"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:34, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Was moved here. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:41, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Bop Till You Drop

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Bop Till You Drop's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "mojo":

• From Last Man Standing (1996 film): "Last Man Standing (1996)". Box Office Mojo. Retrieved 15 August 2020.
• From Blue City (film): "Blue City". Box Office Mojo. Retrieved 2021-09-11.
• From Go Home Girl: The Mojo Collection: 4th Edition. Canongate Books. 2007. p. 426. ISBN 9781847676436.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT⚡ 09:09, 12 May 2023 (UTC)