Talk:Bow drill

Incorrect photo

The photo provided at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bow_drill_demo.jpg is a pump drill, not a bow drill.Ktownbill (talk) 01:47, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Possible source for the hand drill section

We may have found clay/stone drilltips:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0042213

©Geni (talk) 20:12, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps in another article. This needs more information regarding firemaking with bow-drill and hand-drill. Kortoso (talk) 20:46, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Really a mess

This article needs a lot of work. Firstly, there's a mix of information between firemaking by bow drill and drilling holes using primitive technology. They really address different subjects, and one does not inform the other.

Secondly, the hand drill is discussed under the bow drill, while logically they should be under a single topic of friction firemaking or the like.

I'll see what I can do. Kortoso (talk) 21:02, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Hand drill in Viking Age

http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/fire.shtml

"The friction method is the one that most people think of when they consider primitive fire-starting. The classic stereotype is the ancient man rubbing two sticks together, although actual friction fire-starting used methods such as drilling (twirling a stick in a pre-prepared hole on another piece of wood, using the hands for the motion or a bow to twirl the "drill"), or the fire-plow (a hardwood stick is rubbed back and forth in a groove in a softwood board). The Old Norse language contains evidence that the fire-drill was known and used. There are two words in Old Icelandic that specifically refer to fire-drills. The first is bragð-alr "twirling-awl", used in Iceland for making fire, and the second is bragðals-eldr, the term for a fire produced using a bragð-alr. The word bragð has a fundamental notion of "a sudden motion", but also, especially in sports, it has the sense of "a trick or strategem," and the use of a bow-and-drill to make fire is certainly a clever trick. Since friction-method fire-making equipment is generally made up of wood and fiber, which don't survive well in archaeological contexts, the language clues can be the only source of information about this technology." Kortoso (talk) 21:04, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

New material

I'm just parking this here for now. Your suggestions are appreciated.

The control of fire by Homo erectus is well established, and this would have typically taken the form of harvesting fire from lightning-sparked blazes. However, the beginning of man-made fire (or "habitual use of fire" which presumes fire-making) is much harder to pin down; any possible wooden tools for friction fire-making have rotted away long ago.

“…Middle Paleolithic Neandertals did not have to wait for lightning strikes, meteorite falls, volcanoes, or spontaneous combustion: they had the ability to make, conserve, and transport fires during successive occupations or at different sites, like ethnographically documented recent hunter-gatherers, a pattern comparable to that documented in the Upper Paleolithic.” (On the earliest evidence for habitual use of fire in Europe; Wil Roebroeks and Paola Villa)

Hand Fire Drill

Many people around the world knew and used the hand fire drill. It appears to be a widespread tradition.

African Maasai

“We cannot be certain of course, but it is quite likely that the Maasai have more modern ways to light their stoves, but they will nevertheless give a demonstration of more traditional fire-making methods. Just like the scouts, they use friction to create heat that in turn inflames some grass. Here you can see the very long wooden stick that is twisted by rapid spinning between two palms, whilst the end is held to a wooden plate to create the heat and ultimately fire.” (http://www.sarasent.co.uk/travel/kenya/maasai.shtml)

Africa

Methods of traditional fire‐making in pre‐industrial South Africa, H. M. Friedea

California Native Americans

The hand fire drill was universal and ancient throughout the Americas. In the New World, the bow drill was known only to the Eskimos/Inuit people and a few Native American groups in Canada. (Survival Skills of Native California)

Medieval Scandinavia

“The Old Norse language contains evidence that the fire-drill was known and used. There are two words in Old Icelandic that specifically refer to fire-drills. The first is bragð-alr ‘twirling-awl’, used in Iceland for making fire, and the second is bragðals-eldr, the term for a fire produced using a bragð-alr.” (http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/fire.shtml)

Traditional Japan

Kiribi: by rubbing together two pieces of wood, generally cypress (hinoki). (Japan Encyclopedia) Momikiri 揉錐 (http://fudosama.blogspot.com/2004/12/tokusa-fudo-temple-kanagawa.html)

Other sources

Fire-making apparatus in the U.S. National Museum, 1890; Hough, Walter, 1859-1935

Aboriginal Fire-Making, Walter Hough

From Hand to Handle: The First Industrial Revolution, by Lawrence Barham

Kortoso (talk) 19:08, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

http://thepaleodiet.com/ancestral-fire-production-implications-contemporary-paleo-diets/ Kortoso (talk) 18:59, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Friction Firemaking

I suggest re-naming this article to "Friction Firemaking". Main reason is that the Bow Drill was much rarer than the hand drill, and that other friction firemaking technologies (fire plow, etc.) deserve mention. Kortoso (talk) 18:33, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Bow drills have other uses apart form kindling fire. If you want to start an article on friction firemaking, then go to it, but that doesn't invalidate this article. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:56, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

And why is that? Kortoso (talk) 20:27, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Bow drills have additional uses, such as simply drilling holes. It would thus be inappropriate to change the article describing them to imply that their major and even only use was for firemaking. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:20, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

That's your opinion. Kortoso (talk) 19:58, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

This page has an additional problem of including things that are not bow drills at all - hand, pump, and strap drills. Do these, or bow drills, even need a separate page from Drill#Hand drills? For "Friction Firemaking", there is already a page for all kinds of early/simple ways of making fires, with a section on friction: Firelighting#Friction. I say fold this article in with Drill and Firelighting. Or if someone decides a separate page is needed, I'd suggest making it as general as hand drills (though even that has a more general page where such drills would fit - Hand tool). John_Abbe (talk) 13:12, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Nobody has fixed this yet; I guess it's up to me. Kortoso (talk) 23:33, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned comment

Fire Bow needs to redirect here. --??

It does now. John_Abbe (talk) 13:12, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Drill bits

Some information on the cutting tips is needed. What materials, how made, how attached to the shaft etc. · · · Peter (Southwood) ^(talk): 04:34, 12 September 2018 (UTC)