Talk:Bradford City stadium fire

Use of footage

As of about 6 years ago the video of the Bradford City fire was being used in the Granada TV Health & Safety video shown to all London employees (Granada at the time owning Yorkshire TV, the rights-holder for the footage). I can't remember exactly, but I think we were told it was to illustrate just how quickly a fire can spread. It was certainly pretty sobering stuff. 91.84.13.71 (talk) 22:40, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I remember being shown it here in Australia as a safety video too. Demonstrating the spread of fire and how smoke inhalation affects people. 61.9.246.247 (talk) 01:32, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

It was also shown to us as new employees of a 5* London Hotel for the same reason - awareness of fire hazards... 86.146.243.125 (talk) 01:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Links

Why are there links to sites that are identified as not working? What is the point? - Tigerman2005

Because various editors have decided to remove valid links or discussion that relate to any footage that exists of the event. We are not allowed to share copies of said footage, if we theoretically have it. That would be a violation of the copyright held by the news network that covered the event. Coolgamer (talk) 22:14, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

On a side note, I just noticed that the "Youtube controversy" link has a screenshot showing the video from my very own Youtube account, coolgamer167, before the video was removed. Interesting to know I'm semi-notable online. Coolgamer (talk) 18:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

"A second more sinister site"

If we're not going to name the site, then is it justifiable to refer to it as "sinister"? That looks like POV to me, and I'd be inclined to edit to simply "A second site". Thoughts? Loganberry (Talk) 16:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

It's a so-called "humour" website; I removed the adjective "sinister" as a NPOV violation. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:14, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikileaks

Wikileaks has released the suppressed video of the fire - is it possible to link to this? What are the rules about linking to wikileaks and this sort of thing? El Pollo Diablo (Talk) 10:55, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Now, I wonder who did that? Coolgamer (talk) 00:31, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Dubious statement

Its highly dubious that the fire brigade only responded when they saw live pictures of the fire. This intimates that the match was being shown live and they were watching so responded. In fact, ITV were not broadcasting the match live, but cut to the stadium a few minutes after it started by which time the fire brigade were already on site. Some supporting evidence should be added if this "it is thought" is to stay. Seedybob (talk) 19:23, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I'll take a look. I've got a few sources on this and aim to try do some substantial work on this article in the next few days. Peanut4 (talk) 21:05, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Arc lights

The guardian's piece says arc lights were used, and this is currently repeated here on the wiki. I wasn't there, so can't know for certain, but this is extremely unlikely. Arc lights became obsolete after WW2, and using them to light a football ground would have been a maintenance nightmare, with ongoing costs grossly outstripping total replacement.

Journalistic pieces have a habit of getting technical facts wrong and dramatising such things.

For anyone not familiar with them, the carbon rods require replacement after a couple of hours use (the lights go out) (this means personnel climbing the lighting supports a couple of times per event), and they need ongoing adjustment as they burn down, otherwise again some of the lights go out.

If any lighting had been installed in 1911 it would have been arc lights, but the chance of them still being in service by 1985 is realistically about zero. 86.4.152.167 (talk) 03:33, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

There was no lighting installed in 1911. In fact none were installed until 1954. I wrote the bit about "arc lights" and simply took it from the Guardian report. I'll simplify it for the time being, and hope to find some other sources on it. Peanut4 (talk) 13:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Squad lists

What's the feeling about putting in squad lists for City & Lincoln's players on the day? GiantSnowman 18:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I was wondering this. I started a push towards GA and eventually FA earlier this year but I stalled. I will try get back on to it again and will bring this very question up at a peer review or two. Peanut4 (talk) 21:25, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Chubby Brown

The so called Chubby Brown controversy is almost certainly an urban myth and should be removed from this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.129.44.133 (talk) 15:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Removed Footage Section

I have removed the "Footage" section as the majority of the content did not have reliable sources to back up the claims and such sources have not been produced for quite some time now. If someone wishes the find appropriate sources to back up said claims, I am more than happy to have this section re-introduced. I may do so myself although I am quite busy for the time being. For now though, I believe the article would benefit with the removal of this section for now. Cheers. --Auger Martel (talk) 04:26, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I feel it's appropriate to mention that the footage of the fire has been uploaded to Liveleak, and is here Parrot of Doom 21:14, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

External links

There's no need to have so many newspaper articles linked from this article. They may be useful as sources, hence their addition to this talk page, but, as mere external links, they only constitute a link farm.

• BBC - "On this day - 11 May"
• BBC - Radio report 12 May 1985
• The Guardian - "Hideous images linger after carnage of 'celebration' day. 13 May 1985
• The Guardian - "Out of the inferno". A multiply bereaved survivor's 20th anniversary retrospective
• The Times - "Day that will live with me forever". ITV Gabby Logan's 18th anniversary retrospective
• The Times - "I was buying crisps. In five minutes a fireball would sweep that passage". ITV Gabby Logan's 20th anniversary retrospective
• The Times - "Dignified city's terrible suffering was heavy price for change". Justice Popplewell's 20th anniversary retrospective
• The Times - "Cause of death? Complacency". Sports ground historian Simon Inglis 20th anniversary retrospective
• The Times - "The TV commentator who broke the news to a horrified world". YTV John Helm's 20th anniversary retrospective
• The Guardian - "20 years on Bradford stops to salute victims of a stadium fire". Report on 20th anniversary memorial service
• BBC - Look North report on 20th anniversary memorial service (v.1)
• BBC - Look North report on 20th anniversary memorial service (v.2)
• BBC Radio Lincoln - 20th Anniversary retrospective
• The Daily Telegraph - "Bradford fire: forgotten tragedy of the Eighties". 20th anniversary retrospective
• BBC - "Bradford remembers fire disaster". 20th anniversary retrospective
• Bradford City F.C. official history page
• The Sunday Times - "Caught in Time" Bradford City's players 20 years on.
• The Independent - 20th anniversary retrospective - "Bradford City: After the fire"
• Youtube controversy
• All4humour controversy
• Bradford City's official post 1985 transformation of Valley Parade
• BBC - Professor David Sharpe, head of burns unit 20th anniversary retrospective

Of the two links not listed above, one was left in as I expect readers of this page might like to see such a list and the other was remved as spam. ClaretAsh 08:06, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Worst or second-worst fire disaster?

In the main article it says 'the fire was described as the worst fire disaster in the history of British football...'

A contributor has inserted '2nd' into the opening of the lede. If the Bradford stadium fire is to be classified as the second worst fire disaster, we ought to know which was the worst, even if this is not featured in the lede, but in the main article. 86.171.217.68 (talk) 14:36, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I reverted the change as there is no reference as as you say no indication of what is the worst. Keith D (talk) 15:55, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. DrKiernan (talk) 17:56, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

---

Bradford City stadium fire → Valley Parade fire – Current name is long winded and not how the disaster is known. 'Bradford City stadium' is known as 'Valley Parade'. Relisted. BDD (talk) 17:47, 31 January 2014 (UTC) Mtaylor848 (talk) 11:56, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose it may be known by that name by BCFC fans, but a review of the sources show "Valley Parade fire" is not the name of choice. They usually use a combination of "Bradford" and "fire" or "disaster", and "Valley Parade" seems nowhere in sight. -- Ohc ^¡digame! 09:08, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Overwhelmingly known nationally by its current name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:20, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Official site link request

Do any current Administrators of this page object to me adding that the official site for information about the Bradford City Fire be added to the info box at the top of the page, the site is: www.bradfordcityfire.co.uk and is a not for profit site fully funded by myself that is an extensive resource for information, witness statements, newspaper reports, photos, audio files and video footage related to the fire disaster.

Damages judgement

I'm not sure where to put this in the article, but I don't see any mention of the legal judgement dated 23 February 1987 finding the club 2/3 and the county council 1/3 responsible for the deaths, mentioned in this 2010 article in The Guardian. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:19, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

I think you have highlighted a bigger issue with this page and the fact that it is poorly structured, I'll commence some work on this to break the page down and cover off more accurately the aftermath of the disaster - there are a number of articles on the Bradford City Fire website which address the court case brought forward by the Fletcher family. (RedJulianG40 (talk) 09:15, 5 March 2015 (UTC))

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Bradford City stadium fire/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

. Switch existing references to use one of the {{Cite}} templates Requires copy edit for WP:MOS Keith D (talk) 11:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 13:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 10:10, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 11 external links on Bradford City stadium fire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090226002716/http://www.bradfordcityfc.co.uk:80/page/History/0,,10266~91558,00.html to http://www.bradfordcityfc.co.uk/page/History/0,,10266~91558,00.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150211152106/http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2014/12/31/messages-of-condolence-from-around-the-world-and-responses-from-then-prime-minister-margaret-thatcher/ to http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2014/12/31/messages-of-condolence-from-around-the-world-and-responses-from-then-prime-minister-margaret-thatcher/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150211175418/http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2013/02/07/the-crowd-charity-single-for-the-bradford-city-stadium-fire/ to http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2013/02/07/the-crowd-charity-single-for-the-bradford-city-stadium-fire/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090226000421/http://www.redimps.co.uk:80/page/NewsDetail/0,,10440~1498199,00.html to http://www.redimps.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10440~1498199,00.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150325102139/http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk:80/2015/03/06/court-transcript-fletcher-and-others-v-bradford-city-football-club-and-others-23021987/ to http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2015/03/06/court-transcript-fletcher-and-others-v-bradford-city-football-club-and-others-23021987/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150325102139/http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk:80/2015/03/06/court-transcript-fletcher-and-others-v-bradford-city-football-club-and-others-23021987/ to http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2015/03/06/court-transcript-fletcher-and-others-v-bradford-city-football-club-and-others-23021987/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150218152035/http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk:80/2012/09/16/bradford-city-a-year-of-healing-1986/ to http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2012/09/16/bradford-city-a-year-of-healing-1986/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140517110909/http://www.gnbooks.co.uk:80/p/9780957639935-Living-with-Jacko to http://www.gnbooks.co.uk/p/9780957639935-Living-with-Jacko
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121220092434/http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2012/09/29/bradford-city-fire-interim-report-by-mr-justice-popplewell/ to http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2012/09/29/bradford-city-fire-interim-report-by-mr-justice-popplewell/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121219055138/http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk:80/2012/09/23/british-medical-journal-treatment-of-burns-casualties-after-fire-at-bradford-city-football-ground/ to http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2012/09/23/british-medical-journal-treatment-of-burns-casualties-after-fire-at-bradford-city-football-ground/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140516025204/http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk:80/2013/09/17/peter-jacksons-story-bradford-city-fire/ to http://bradfordcityfire.co.uk/2013/09/17/peter-jacksons-story-bradford-city-fire/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:03, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Never cleaning out under the stands -- a cause of the fire

• This blog site http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?89925-RIP-The-Bradford-56 says that after the fire, "the rubbish under the stands contained newspapers dated some 30 years earlier". Is there a better ref for this information? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:45, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Bradford City stadium fire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090225160447/http://www.brad.ac.uk/library/special/popplewell.php to http://www.brad.ac.uk/library/special/popplewell.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:43, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Ambiguity over why Australian visited

Under “Fire” it says he was visiting his son but under “Eric Bennett Controversy” it says it was his nephew.

Cali Boy 09 (talk) 19:56, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

The first instance is just the recollection of the match commentator John Helm, I think perhaps a note should be added clarifying this isn't wholly correct. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 20:05, 18 March 2023 (UTC)