Talk:Brilliance Auto Group

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After new standards invented in 2009 the BS4 gained 0 Stars in the NCAP-Test performed by the ADAC. In the old standards the BS4 would have gained 3 stars. http://www.adac.de/Tests/Crash_Tests/China_Kracher/brilliance_bs_4/default.asp?ComponentID=248522&SourcePageID=8645 -- Interessenkonflikt (talk) 17:22, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Brands

"Zunchi", "Junjie", "Kubao" are not Brilliance's "brandname". They are just "model name".

• Zhonghua Zunchi = Brilliance BS6
• Zhonghua Junjie = Brilliance BS4
• Zhonghua Kubao = Brilliance BC3 (word "Kubao" similar to "coupe")

--113.53.35.21 (talk) 14:37, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move per request.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:57, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

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Brilliance China Automotive Holdings Limited → Brilliance Auto —

The common name used by the company is Brilliance Auto, as is made evident by their own website www.brillianceauto.com/. Also, "Holdings", "Limited" and such are not to be included in titles as per WP:NCCORP.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 07:40, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support: to harmonize with the common name and the naming convention for companies. Quigley (talk) 08:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

• I have boldly move the article to new title, as the article now about the Brilliance Auto Group, instead of its listed associate company (or subsidiary? since ownership ratio is just around 40%) Brilliance Auto. This also leave room to split the listed company as a separate article if enough WP:GNG and WP:NCORP coverages in external secondary sources . Matthew hk (talk) 08:04, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Crash test.

As concerns the recent edits to the crash test section, there is no need for duplicate references for the BS6's weak initial result. There is other content which was changed for no apparent reason ("three stars" is more precise than "better"). The name of the European importing company was HSO Motors, never "Hans-Ulrich Sachs".  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 08:07, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, your references site says, "the car has big chances to get three stars." So let's not say the car got 3 stars. We don't even know the max number of stars. We know 3 is better than 1, which is what the BS6 got from ADAC. So it got "better performance", and that's what my citation give it.

I guess Hans-Ulrich Sachs was HSO owner. Reuters confused me; it said "Hans-Ulrich Sach is the importer" and I thought they meant he was a company.

I say, let's move it back to my version before I made the mistake of naming the CEO as the importing company. That removes the 3 star problem. Fleetham (talk) 16:24, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Found a reference for the three star rating. The tests are all done according to the Euro NCAP standards (five maximum stars). I say we do not move it back.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 21:46, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Additionally, why did you state that HSO went bankrupt "due to rising product costs"? The link states that the problem was that Brilliance's cars were not competitively priced, which carries a somewhat different meaning.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 21:53, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I continue to object to the 3/5 stars thing because no citation says the Spanish test was an Euro NCAP. They probably just did the normal Spanish crash test, instead. My guess is that rising material prices and the cost of add. safety equip. was the reason for the bankruptcy. Maybe I shouldn't write it if it's only a guess. Fleetham (talk) 00:07, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Here are some possible sources:

• 5. September 2007: Brilliance BS 6 (Grandeur, Zunchi). THREE STARS. http://www.chinesecars.net ...This says the Spanish test was E-NCAP

I think a better idea would be to remove the 3/5 stars from the Spanish crash test because no source says it was a 5-star test, and state explicitly that the first German test was conducted by ADAC, a car club. Here's a citation for the latter: Brilliance treated unfair in Germany gasgoo.com, March 30, 2009 Fleetham (talk) 00:21, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, since the source stated by you clearly says it was according to Euro NCAP standards I guess that ends the argument. It doesn't matter who executes the test (ADAC or Idiada), they do it according to the same standards. Yes, with a maximum of five stars. And yes, by comparing the test results (and calling three an improvement over 0-1), even the original source implies that the maximum remains the same. This does not mean that this sentence should contain six or seven references, by the way, since no one other than yourself could possibly be confused by these things.

And no, you should not state your guesses in articles.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 15:06, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

What citation says the Spanish test was an NCAP? And are car clubs usually the ones who test vehicle safety? The first BS6 ADAC one seems like an informal crash test to me. Fleetham (talk) 15:50, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

The one you cited above (in the second paragraph): "Besides, some other institutes have tested Chinese cars, using the severe regulations of the Euro NCAP. Here is a complete list until date."  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 17:03, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, but do you object to mentioning that ADAC is a German car club so people don't think it's something like Germany's Transportation Ministry? Fleetham (talk) 21:22, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't think its entirely necessary, since ADAC is wikilinked. But if you want to, go ahead - although calling it a "car club" is misleading, as it is more akin to the AA (UK) or AAA (US). "Automobile Association" would perhaps be more representative? ADAC is also a member of the board of Euro NCAP, so there is not really any room/need for doubting their results.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 21:36, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, they sound legitimate. I know some Russian car magazine tested a few Chinese cars a while ago. I didn't know if the ADAC tests were similar; just some random organization who really shouldn't be testing cars doing so and then proclaiming them unsafe. Fleetham (talk) 22:46, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Why do you insist on deleting the part about HSO Motors? We do not, as a rule, delete content without explanation.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 16:14, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

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