Talk:British Army during the First World War/GA1

GA Review

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GA review of this version:
Pn = paragraph n • Sn = sentence n

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

All points addressed

Comments Introduction: **It did however have more recent combat experience, then [sic] any other army in the conflict What are we talking about here? The 1908 invasion of Tibet? The 1912 war against the Mad Mullah in Somalia? Did not the French and Germans also fight colonial wars? Wasn't Turkey at war in 1912-13 in the Balkans? Or are we talking about a war against a European enemy ie the Boers (1899-1902)? Or against a major power, for which we have to go back to the Crimean War? Whereas Germany and France fought in 1870, and Russia and Japan in 1904? removed sentence don't think it detracts from the article Wasn't the Vickers machine gun introduced into service with the British Army before WWI? (Yes it was.) changed wording I believe some TA and K units used the old Maxim. I think some were also issued with the Lewis in lieu. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:52, 10 June 2009 (UTC) Organisation: They also had three field artillery brigades with fifty four, 18 pounder guns, one field Howitzer brigade with twenty four, 4.5 inch howitzers, one heavy artillery brigade with four, 60 pounder guns Apart from some misplaced commas that should be removed, I think you'll find that the "heavy brigade" was only a battery. Changed details I don't think you have the artillery organisation right. Before the war the British Army adopted the four-gun battery. Re-check. Checked seems to be right from the source 3 x field artillery brigades with 54 x 18 lbs guns and one field howitzer brigade with 28 x 4.5 inch and the 4 60lbs in the heavy brigade. My source says 18 x 4.5" hows in each of the 3 FABs, 18 x 4.5" hows in the howitzer brigade, and 4 x 60lbs in the heavy battery. See Messenger, Call to Arms: The British Army 1914-18, pp. 25-26. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:52, 10 June 2009 (UTC) (See how confusing this is? The British Army starts with 3 x 6 guns per brigade, switches to 4 x 4, then in 1917 to 4 x 6 to economise on battery commanders. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC)) Changed details Additionally there was a divisional machine gun battalion, equipped with thirty six Vickers machine guns. Can you double check this? Because an Australian machine gun battalion had four companies of 16 Vickers machine guns = 64 guns. Yes good catch bad maths on my part 4 x 16 = 64 Your organisation is missing the Service Corps and Medical Corps - the three field ambulances. Added ASC and RAMC British Expeditionary Force Conventionally armies spelt out, while corps use roman numerals. Corrected Recruitment and conscription They mostly served as nurses in the the Queen Alexandra's Royal Army Nursing Corps (QARANC). They would have; but it didn't become a corps until after the Second World War. changed to WWI title Commanders Who's the most famous British Army officer of the war? Lord Kitchener? I did consider him but as he was Secretary of State for War more of a politician then soldier so left him out "Field Marshal Edmund Allenby" First of all, Allenby was not promoted to field marshal until after the war. Secondly, you omit the fact that he commanded the Third Army on the Western Front. Changed detail To round out the Army commanders, you should mention Rawlinson and Gough (assuming he isn't a non-person in the UK). Both added Complete this sentence: Robertson was replaced as CIGS in 1918 by ...Henry Hughes Wilson added And perhaps mention Hamilton? Hamilton already mentioned after Milne The article could do without the lions and donkeys nonsense. deleted content the war also noticeably lowered the age of commanding officers What are they? clarified Of those officers of the General Staff Who are we talking about? Changed wording Can we say something about staff officers? Infantry tactics Didn't GHQ abolish the specialised sections in 1917? Artillery tactics What other types of barrages were used in addition to creeping barrages?**You should discuss counter battery arrangements. Both added Gallipoli Campaign the 29th Division and ANZAC forces landed at Cape Helles on the Gallipoli peninsula No; only the 29th Division landed at Helles. ANZAC landed at Anzac. (What other British units fought at Anzac and Helles?) Details added This was a bold decision by the British Commander General Ian Hamilton to land his forces of the Dardanelles Army on the beaches on the southern tip and western flank of the Gallipoli Peninsular, as logic would indicate landings at the waist of the Peninsular would be more effective. Logic would then be wrong. Why? Changed wording You should mention Krithia, as this was the main British effort. Added details Sinai and Palestine campaign The British Army, which included the 52nd, 53rd and the 74th (Yeomanry) Division along with Australian Light Horse and the New Zealand Mounted Rifles Brigade Also the 42nd, 54th and 75th Division, and the Yeomanry Mounted Division. Added details Other fronts You should also mention Persia and Stalky STALKY has me baffled sorry but I have never heard of it/one Good old Stalky. Hawkeye7 (talk) 12:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC) And North Russia! Russia is included in Further information: [[:History of the British Army, Inter-War period (1919-1939)]] Equipment Stokes Mortar You should mention the 2" medium and 9.45" heavy trench mortars Added What's missing from the equipment section? Artillery! Mention the 13-pounder, 18-pounder, 4.5-inch how and 60-pounder and 6-inch gun. And the big stuff (siege artillery: the 6-inch gun 6-inch how, 8-inch how and the 9.2-inch how. And the super heavy stuff, the 12-inch and 15-inch) Artillery added Motor vehicles! General How about something on medical aspects of the war? trench foot, trench fever and nephritis mentioned in the trenches section any thing else you were thinking of ?' shell shock, malaria and influenza mainly. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC) While you work on this, I'll give it a copy-edit. Hawkeye7 (talk) 10:43, 10 June 2009 (UTC) Thanks given me a lot to get on with - I have to leave now will resume tomorrow --Jim Sweeney (talk) 12 00, 10 June 2009 (UTC) Some more thoughts .I think the first paragraph of the introduction should be moved down into the "Organisation" section as it is kind of specific. Moved The introduction should make at least one thing clear: this is the Great war, the largest and most costly war fought by the British Army in its long history. Added There should also be another small section at the end about the impact of the war on the British Army.Added I don't like the "British Empire contribution" section much. The article is about the British Army, so it should discuss the British. You could drop it entire. Or you could discuss the influence of the British Army on the Australian, Canadian, American etc armies. The "under the command of British Officers" is very misleading and should be revised. These armies normally operated under the command of their own officers; large formations - divisions and corps - formed part of the British Army.I added the Empire units after they were twice mentioned during peer review I like you wanted to keep it British Army - NOW DELETED If you prefer, I can quick-fail the article and you could make the changes at your leisure and re-nominate later. My preference is to push it through to completion. I would like to keep going other commitments aside may take a few days to get around to it all If you want help with a section, let me know. I wrote my Masters thesis on the Great War. Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC) Thanks will get to work on above --Jim Sweeney (talk) 08:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)