Talk:2008–2009 neo-Nazi murders of Roma in Hungary

Problems with the article

I need to point out that the case has (almost) nothing to do with Budapest. The series of attacks was done in 10 villages all scatter around within Middle and East Hungary. The Hungarian article of the topic has just been updated massively. Cvbncv (talk) 15:10, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

@Cvbncv: I totally agree, this needs renaming. I was actually gathering sources to start writing this article as it is not linked anywhere, and I could not find it on google when I searched for "Neo-nazi attacks on Roma in 2008-2009". What do you think would be a better title? I think perhaps "Neo-nazi murders of Roma in Hungary (2008-2009)". Boynamedsue (talk) 04:29, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

@Boynamedsue: I can agree with the title "Neo-nazi attacks on Roma in 2008-2009". If it helps, I come back later and check the article with Hungarian sources, I think they are more detailed than English ones. Cvbncv (talk) 06:22, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks CvbncV, there is a naming discussion below to which your contribution would be very welcome. Boynamedsue (talk) 06:48, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 12 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to "2008–2009 neo-Nazi murders of Roma in Hungary". (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 05:00, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

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Budapest serial killings → Serial murders of Roma in Hungary (2008-2009) – The title "Budapest serial killings" is inaccurate as the murders did not take place in Budapest, the phrase is not commonly used to refer to the killings, and does not include the motive of the murders which is the ethnicity of the victims (referred to in all RS discussing this, see below). For this reason, when one googles "attacks on Roma in Hungary in 2008-2009" the page does not appear until the 3rd or 4th page of results.

There is no single commonly used name describing the killings and attacks. The phrase "Hungarian Roma Murders" is used here and "murders of Roma (2008-2009) in Hungary" is used here, and "the 2009 murder of Roma people in Hungary" here However, many sources refer to the situation as a series of attacks, as in some of the attempted murders nobody was killed, and the attackers were the same individuals. Examples include "series of attacks" (BBC) (politico).

As can be seen above, "common name" appears not to apply, as none exists. "Murders" is better than "attacks" as the title should reflect the seriousness of the crimes, and "murders" is commonly used in articles dedicated solely to the topic. "Hungarian Roma Murders" leaves ambiguity as to whether the Roma were the victims or the perpetrators, so "murders of Roma in Hungary" is better. The murders and attacks appear to be the work of one group, so adding the word "serial" reflects this rather than suggesting a trend among unrelated individuals.

Boynamedsue (talk) 05:10, 12 May 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 06:18, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support Budapest serial killings → Serial murders of Roma in Hungary. The parenthetical qualifier "(2008-2009)" would be necessary only if there were also serial murders of Roma in Hungary during years other than those. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 06:40, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm not necessarily against that, but given the name is not in common use, I feel the dating should probably form part of it. Simply in order to make it easier to find for people searching for information on the topic. Boynamedsue (talk) 08:03, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

• Move to 2008–2009 neo-Nazi murders of Roma in Hungary. These were not "serial murders", which are something quite specific (see serial killer), but were instead hate crime murders. The years are necessary, as otherwise it sounds like a generic topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:28, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Necrothesp I find that reasoning convincing in all aspects, but I'm not sure about the dates being initial. Is the convention to have dates at the beginning? It looks better to me in parenthesis at the end, but if there are good reasons for it, I am willing to compromise. Boynamedsue (talk) 11:16, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

For incidents, yes it is. See some other crimes in the same year. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:19, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok then, that seems fine, I fully support the version you propose.Boynamedsue (talk) 11:31, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

I would likewise support Necrothesp's proposed form — 2008–2009 neo-Nazi murders of Roma in Hungary. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 13:09, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.