Talk:CMLL International Gran Prix (2008)/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Good888 (talk · contribs) 12:18, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Hello, I am going to review this article, but first I should warn I am a little rusty in reviewing GA nominated articles.

Lead

• "World Wrestling Concil". I am assuming that Concil should be Council?

• Fixed

• "The International Gran Prix tournament took place on the same night of the finals of the Leyenda de Plata ("Silver Legend") tournament." This section in the second paragraph has several issues in my opinion. First, it does not state which two wrestlers would compete in the final, nor who won it. Secondly, as mentioned in the poster and in the results template, this is the main event. Shouldn't this be the first match mentioned in the lead?

• I moved a sentence around and added who won the Leyenda de Plata, but since this article is primarily about the International Grand Prix tournament itself the other matches are more to provide context for the show.  MPJ-DK  14:18, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

• I believe a third paragraph detailing the attendance figures would be useful. Perhaps you could compare the figures to the 2007 International Gran Prix?

• I am doing some research to try and find other attendance figures, no luck yet but I have not hit every single source yet, so there may be something to add here.

Production

• "From 2009 through 2015 CMLL did not hold an International Gran Prix but they announced the return of the International Gran Prix in May 2016." To avoid repetition, I believe the second "the International Gran Prix" should simply be rewritten as "the tournament".

• Fixed

• "Último Guerrero won both the 2006 International Gran Prix and 2007 International Gran Prix." Two things: first, the first "International Gran Prix" should be removed from this sentence and the second mention of it should end with an s. The other query is that maybe you could add to this sentence that "Último Guerrero was the other wrestler, winning both the 2006 and 2007 International Grand Prixs"?

• Reworded

• "Headhunter A (1995) and Steel (1997)" 1995 and 1997 should have links to the respective International Grand Prixs.

• Fixed

• "The wrestlers themselves portray either heels (referred to as rudos in Mexico, those that portray the "bad guys") or faces (técnicos in Mexico, the "good guy" characters)" Unless I am mistaken, should the mention of face characters be mentioned first? I am sure that a couple of GA wrestling event articles followed this criteria?

• I have never actually paid attention to the order, but I switched them to be consistent.

• "The second round of the tournament Rey Bucanero defeated Alex Koslov in a short match" I have added saw between tournament and Rey.
• "with Team TNA (Kaz, Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin and Curry Man) in second place" I have changed "in second place" to runners-up.
• "It was announced that the International Gran Prix would take place on the same night as the finals of the 2008 Leyenda de Plata tournament." Should this part really be in the storyline sectiom? Also, I think adding reference 10 could be useful for clarity.

• Moved it to the production section and gave a source.

Event

• Although this article is indeed more to do with the International Gran Prix, a mention of the first match would be useful for readers. Since it was a best two-out-of-three falls match, add all falls if possible.

• I have added what detail I could find on the first two matches.

• Likewise, it would help if the readers knew about the first two falls in the second match and what caused them to happen.

• Added

• "Christopher Daniels was originally scheduled to be part of "Team International" but was replaced with Johnny Devine due to a TNA storyline where Daniels had been fired from the company." Personally, I think you mention the International Gran Prix was the third match to take place on the card before discussing this.

• Clarified

• Since the article is indeed meant to be talking about the International Grand Prix, I believe detailing some (or all) of the other eliminations would be useful, rather than just a table.

• I will work on this, putting the eliminations into prose instead.
• I have added something here, written it out more than just relying on the table.

• "Moments later Alex Shelley locked in a submission hold, then pulled Guerrero's mask off in the process" Hmm, I do not think that more than four minutes after the first pin counts as "moments later." Perhaps "minutes later" would be better. Also, you stated that removing a wrestler's mask in lucha libre is grounds for disqualification, so how comes Shelley did not get disqualifed? Was the referee distracted? Or was this not under lucha libre rules?

• Minutes later works yes. And he pulled the mask off out of view of the referee - the "bad guy gets away with cheating" ploy.

• "two long-time rivals facing off in a one-on-one match." You already mentioned that it was a single match beforehand, so the "one-one-one match" should be removed. Perhaps it should be rewritten similar to "a singles match between CMLL's top tecnico Místico and one of CMLL's top rudo workers, Perro Aguayo Jr., of whom were two long-time rivals."?

• I rewrote this a bit, hope it is better?
  • Yeah, that is better. Good888 (talk) 08:26, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

• "Aguayo Jr. won the first fall" I am guessing pinfall, but the readers might not, so you should state how he won.

• Fixed

• I am not too sure the elimination table should be in this section. Looking at other wrestling events that are GA or FA, these tables are generally at the bottom of the results section.

• Moved

• I believe the Último Guerrero image should be moved to the right if possible. The reason why I think this is that Wikipedia articles generally seem to have one image start at the left (Shelley image in this case), and the second image is right and so forth.

• Moved

• The Dutt and Sabin image should be moved to the Aftermath section. I will explain why in that section of this review.

• Moved

Aftermath

• As mentioned above, the Dutt and Sabin image is perfect here because I feel it helps to illustrate their six-man tag team match with Shelley against Los Guerreros Negro. Indeed, perhaps the caption too should mention their Sin Piedad match too.
• "losing a championship match to Los Guerreros Negro." Since you mentioned earlier that Los Guerreros Negro were the champions, is this part of the sentence needed? Perhaps a rewrite similar to "in a losing effort for the championship" would be better.

• Reworded, better?
  • Indeed it is. Good888 (talk) 08:26, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

• "until he left WWE in 2014." To avoid repetition, change WWE to "the promotion".

• Fixed

• "it was tragically ended after Aguayo died as result of injuries suffered during a match on March 21, 2015." Damn, I remember reading about this tragedy. I think the readers will need to know which competitors he was facing in that match.

• Added a little detail

• "in a Lucha de Apuestas, or "bet match" Since you already mentioned and linked this, Lucha de Apuestas should be unlinked and "bet match" should be removed.

• Fixed

• "He was voted CMLL 2009 "Revalation of the year"" The reference used says the award is for the "Revelacion of the year", unless the former is the English translation?

• I've seen it both ways in the few Englished language sources I've seen on thee awards, Some use "Revelation" others use the Spanish term, I used the English term (but with an embarrasing typo)

July 25, 2008 Super Viernes results

• I am unsure if the name of this section is useful. Should it just be known as "Results", or is there something notable about it that means it has to stay?

• Good point

• Is it possible for sources to not only be added to the undercard matches, but also in the results tab rather than the stipulations one?

• The source at the top covers all matches, the ones that are listed for match 3 and for cover only that one match. If that's confusing I could move the source out of the header and put it each explicitly match by match
  • For some odd reason, I did not see the sources last time. Now that I have, I am confident that the readers will be able to find it, seeing as it actually is quite clear to most eyes. Good888 (talk) 08:26, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

• In the "Best of" matches, it would be useful to note the final result down. For example, "Místico defeated Perro Aguayo Jr. 2-1".

• Done

• "Alex Shelley won the 2008 CMLL International Gran Prix" Adding "of Team International" would be helpful, unless be the sole survivor means that only Shelley won this tournament overall.

• Reworded to be clearer

• And finally, the elimination table should be added in this section.

• Yep I moved it.

Reception

• Is there enough information and reliable sources to state the commercial and critical aspects of this International Grand Prix? If so, a Reception section before the results section would be useful, stating if the event was successful in both ways.

• I am checking, most Mexican sources tend to be less "rating" the event and more reporting so there will not be a lot of "this match was four stars" type of reviews. But I believe there are a few things and I can tie in the attendance for this show etc. I'll do a little research.
• I got a few notes on the increased attendance for the show and one magazine commented on the match itself etc. it's short but there is something.  MPJ-DK  02:39, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

References

• I have used Checklinks and it has detected a couple of broken links. These references are 2, 20 and 21.

• I will check on these and fix/replace.
• Fixed or replaced

• I believe the references are reliable for use in this article. I am also guessing you have also linked as many of the publishers of said references as possible?

More to come when I get back. Good888 (talk) 12:18, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

• Thank you for your input.  MPJ-DK  14:18, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Overall

There are a couple of issues, but nothing too serious to warrant a fail. Indeed, once these issues are rectifed, I will happy to promote to GA status. On hold for seven days. Good888 (talk) 17:41, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

• Good888 - I have addressed those issues that were immediately fixable, there are a couple left I want to check on some sources and get some details together and then I'll address those issues as well. Thank you for all your feedback, it's helping making it a much better article.  MPJ-DK  03:23, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
  • MPJ-DK - Good work so far, if you can find any information and sources into reception of this International Gran Prix, it would make this article better, although I do not think it is required. I will allow you to work on this for now though. Good888 (talk) 08:26, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Good888 I have added all the information I could find and expanded the coverage of the actual tournament match. Hope that covers it?  MPJ-DK  04:05, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
    • MPJ-DK Awesome work. Promoting to good article class. Good888 (talk) 17:17, 9 November 2016 (UTC)