Talk:Council of Ministers (Albania)

Merge

I suggest that these two articles be merged into Cabinet of Albania, because they are forking. In addition a template of all the ministries should be done, similar to template:cabinet of Canada.--Brunswick Dude (talk) 01:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok agree --Vinie007 06:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved Consensus is against the move Alpha Quadrant ^talk 21:37, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

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Cabinet of Albania → Albanian Cabinet – At present, the articles about national cabinets are not consistent in their title format. While most employ the "Cabinet of country" format, some (such as Canadian Cabinet, New Zealand Cabinet, and Tongan Cabinet) employ the "Adjectival Cabinet" format and one (Cabinet (Fiji)) employs the "Cabinet (country)" format. The title format used for national cabinets should be consistent across the board unless there are reasons for specific articles to vary from the norm. I had started to move these articles to the "Adjectival Cabinet" format because I did not believe the moves to be controversial, but User:Flatterworld reverted my move of Cabinet of Egypt to Egyptian Cabinet, so in accordance with the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, I have started a move discussion.

According to WP:COMMONNAME, "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's 'official' name as an article title; it instead uses the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources." I have individually checked each of the thirty articles listed below and every one of them recieves more hits on Google Books for the "Adjectival Cabinet" format than the "Cabinet of country" format. For example, "Cabinet of Sudan" receives only 1 hit while "Sudanese Cabinet" receives 429 hits. The difference between the number of hits is often an order of magnitude or more; the "Adjectival Cabinet" format is clearly the more commonly used in English-language reliable sources. As such, I recommend that the standard title format for national cabinets be "Adjectival Cabinet". Neelix (talk) 19:35, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

• Cabinet of Australia → Australian Cabinet
• Cabinet of Bahrain → Bahraini Cabinet
• Cabinet of Brazil → Brazilian Cabinet
• Cabinet of Brunei → Bruneian Cabinet
• Cabinet of the Czech Republic → Czech Cabinet
• Cabinet of Dominica → Dominica Cabinet
• Cabinet of Egypt → Egyptian Cabinet
• Cabinet (Fiji) → Fijian Cabinet
• Cabinet of Germany → German Cabinet
• Cabinet of Greece → Greek Cabinet
• Cabinet of Indonesia → Indonesian Cabinet
• Cabinet of Israel → Israeli Cabinet
• Cabinet of Japan → Japanese Cabinet
• Cabinet of Jordan → Jordanian Cabinet
• Cabinet of Kiribati → Kiribati Cabinet
• Cabinet of Mexico → Mexican Cabinet
• Cabinet of Nauru → Nauruan Cabinet
• Cabinet of Norway → Norwegian Cabinet
• Cabinet of Oman → Omani Cabinet
• Cabinet of the Philippines → Philippine Cabinet
• Cabinet of Singapore → Singaporean Cabinet
• Cabinet of the Solomon Islands → Solomon Islands Cabinet
• Cabinet of South Africa → South African Cabinet
• Cabinet of Sri Lanka → Sri Lankan Cabinet
• Cabinet of Sudan → Sudanese Cabinet
• Cabinet of Syria → Syrian Cabinet
• Cabinet of Tanzania → Tanzanian Cabinet
• Cabinet of Thailand → Thai Cabinet
• Cabinet of Tunisia → Tunisian Cabinet

Comment I doubt any of those, individually, would be bad moves; but is there any particular need to move them? Is there a pressing need to have lots of different articles with the titles arranged in a certain way? bobrayner (talk) 20:09, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

The two main issues are WP:COMMONNAME and consistency. Many titles above, such as "Cabinet of Sudan", are barely used at all in the literature, whereas their "Adjectival Cabinet" counterparts are widespread in the literature. As for consistency, it is important for one title format to be accepted for all national cabinets. At present, the difference in the title formats implicitly indicate a semantic difference, as though the Canadian Cabinet and the New Zealand Cabinet were a different category of thing than the Cabinet of Germany and the Cabinet of Mexico. Accepting the "Cabinet of country" format would result in less required moves, but this decision should be made as to which title format will be better for the project in the long term, not which format is easier to implement in the short term. What is better for the project in the long term is to have the articles at the titles that are most common in the literature. Neelix (talk) 14:33, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

It can be difficult to reconcile WP:COMMONNAME with inter-article consistency, because sources often describe different subjects in different ways. Putting more weight on one inevitably means putting less weight on the other; enforcing consistency between articles necessarily means that some will get titles which are less common in the real world (or even titles which do not exist at all in the real world; an example from a different wikiproject springs to mind). I cannot fathom how we're supposed to achieve "articles at the titles that are most common in the literature" by setting an internal convention that they should all be moved to. If sources for country X mostly use one phrase for a cabinet then move that article by all means; there is no need at all to set a standard which says "Use title X if it's common; if not then use title Y if that's more common, unless sources use some other term entirely..." because that's just a restatement of WP:COMMONNAME.

On the other hand, if WP:COMMONNAME is to be set aside, then I have no objection to the proposed naming convention. bobrayner (talk) 15:03, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose: A close one, but overall I think "Cabinet of XYZ" is marginally clearer than "XYZian Cabinet". In the first scenario the name of the country concerned is immediately obvious, whereas in the second one has to do a bit of processing to realize, for instance, that Nauruan is the adjective describing something relating to Nauru. Yes, of course all will become clear once the reader starts reading the article, but I think we might as well go with the clearer formulation. Also, by using "Cabinet of XYZ" we avoid potential problems such as whether "Macedonian Cabinet" refers to the Republic of Macedonia or the region of Macedonia in Greece (assuming it has a cabinet). — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 06:14, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose The proposal is opposite of what Wikipedia:Naming conventions (country-specific topics) says. --Kusunose 02:11, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per Kusunose. Kauffner (talk) 10:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose for consistency and ease of navigation, as in the conventions cited by Kusunose. Rennell435 (talk) 14:01, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose - To use demonyms would make articles look messy and (technically) could be used to describe memebers of an ethnic group who make up part of a Cabinet. The use of Czech Republic for example is a very deliberate choice due to nationality issues during the Dissolution of Czechoslovakia which this change would damage. Also per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (country-specific topics) and the fact this proposal does not cover all articles about countries Cabinets which would leave a situation where consensus was not apparent across Wikipedia. Shatter Resistance (talk) 11:26, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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