Talk:Carrier wave

Untitled

Per WP:MOS, articles are to avoid containing information in list or bulleted format (or keep such lists to a minimum). This article is almost exclusively in list format. Regards, --Mattisse 12:14, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

this intro paragraph is ambiguous:

"Frequency modulation (FM) and amplitude modulation (AM) are commonly used methods to modulate the carrier. In the case of single-sideband modulation (SSB) the carrier is suppressed (and in some forms of SSB eliminated). The carrier must be reintroduced at the receiver by a beat frequency oscillator (BFO)."

Does the need to use BFO only apply to SSB or to all FM and AM? I'm gonna go look for that info elsewhere now, but it'd be nice if it was clear here. I'd come back and correct this P myself, but I'm so new to this topic, I wouldn't trust myself.

BTW, I'm also curious about the entropy-information properties of the these waves and what they carry. Would it make sense to add anything about that?

Potamites (talk) 14:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Article needs work

The whole article needs to be reworked.

Why is the carrier wave usually sinusoidal? There should be some discussion of alternative waveforms, and why they were chosen. Is there some history to this? At the very least, a discussion of why sinusoidal waveforms came to be the industrial norm. Dexter Nextnumber (talk) 03:03, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

A sinusoid packs the maximum possible amount of RF energy in the smallest possible amount of spectrum. If the carrier is not sinusoidal, the modulated signal will take up more bandwidth than generally desired, leading to inefficient use of available spectrum under normal working rules for spectrum use, where different RF emissions are not allowed to share the same band. However, your question is not unreasonable: see direct sequence spread spectrum for how this can be made to work. -- The Anome (talk) 09:58, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I agree there needs to be some work done on this article. Specifically what problem is using a Carrier Wave trying to solve? Mmurfin (talk) 20:20, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, the difficulty of transmitting electromagnetic radiation at baseband, and secondly, the fact that even if you could do so usefully, everyone's signals would overlap. -- The Anome (talk) 09:58, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Rename to Carrier wave

This meets both WP:COMMONNAME and is also a technically more accurate name.

The carrier wave, of itself, is not a signal and contains no information. Only when it is modulated can it then be said to become a "signal". The purpose of this article is to distinguish this unmodulated carrier from the later forms, and so this distinction is significant and worth emphasising through the article name. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:15, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

User:The Anome moved this from Carrier wave in 2013. I can't find any discussion about this move but I agree with it. Do you have any evidence for your WP:COMMONNAME assertion? ~Kvng (talk) 14:55, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

@Andy Dingley: I'm convinced by the argument above, and have moved it back. In the context of RF transmission, "carrier signal" is also to some extent justifiable on those grounds (the "signal" in this case is "this channel is taken") but I take Andy Dingley's point. -- The Anome (talk) 15:00, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

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Should content on carriers in music production be included?

Wtshymanski thought the application of carrier waves in music production doesn't have the requisite relevance for inclusion in this article, so he removed content covering this twice (once in its brief form, and again in its expanded form). The dismissive and patronizing tone of their edit summary put me off from communicating directly with them, so I've opted for an RfC instead. (Relisting again) isento (talk) 19:42, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Votes

• Yes - Carrier modulation systems are clearly used in electronic music synthesis. Elsea, p.268-274, Puckette, 150-166, Snoman, 1266-168, Pejrolo, 141-145, Hosken, 223-226. It should be included in the article. --Chetvorno^TALK 20:56, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
• Yes - per the references above (and from watching my 1337 musician friends do it, and from doing it on synthesizers myself...) jp×g 10:55, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

I'll abstain from voting for now. Maybe someone else can enlighten me, thoughtfully? isento (talk) 23:41, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Isento, This is not exactly a neutrally worded, concise RfC. I don't see any discussion of the issue between you folks prior to this RfC. Perhaps you should have asked for a third opinion first? Or just...discussed it between the two of you on this page instead of using edit summaries? If he was being dismissive and patronizing...you should have brought that up to him or just brought the issue to WP:ANI. As is, this RfC provides no summary of the issue, no discussion of relevant sources, or frankly any other possible background info. I suggest you withdraw this RfC, talk it out with wtshymanski, and go from there. Ping me if you would like me to help moderate a discussion. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 20:49, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Isento I'd be glad to participate too. --Chetvorno^TALK 21:01, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

You're right CaptiainEek. You may strike out that last sentence about their tone and all. But there is already a place for discussion here. Perhaps we should follow through with the RfC then. isento (talk) 06:33, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

The topic sentence of the article is "In telecommunications, a carrier wave, carrier signal, or just carrier, is a waveform (usually sinusoidal) that is modulated (modified) with an information bearing signal for the purpose of conveying information." Nothing about music production there; that is so far afield that really wants to be a separate topic. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:52, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

The source citing that sentence does not say telecommunications. isento (talk) 04:10, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I disagree with Wtshymanski. The same phrase, "carrier wave" is used in music synthesis, with the same meaning: "...a waveform (usually sinusoidal) that is modulated (modified) with an information bearing signal...". The main process used in music synthesis, described in Elsea, p.268-274, Puckette, 150-166, Snoman, 1266-168, Pejrolo, 141-145, Hosken, 223-226 and in Synthesizer#Sound synthesis, is frequency modulation (FM), the same that goes on in an FM radio transmitter. It clearly deserves a mention in this article; it is just a question of WP:due weight. The main use of carriers is in telecommuncations, music synthesis is a small specialized application, so my feeling is it doesn't merit a separate section, just a few sentences. --Chetvorno^TALK 04:15, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

• Yes, in a limited form as described by Chetvorno. A small mention. < Atom (Anomalies) 11:23, 17 November 2020 (UTC)