Talk:Caste systems in Africa

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This is very interesting article, but it lacks citations. Are they any citable materials for this information. I have been researching the issue and to date have found very little information. --David W. Baylor 14:30, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I've just added some more info - without citations also, I'm afraid (though I'm a bit familiar with the matter from living in the West Africa and studying it). This article is IMO a perfect example of the kind of Wikipedia article that could be focused on by African studies courses - i.e., a student critiques & rewrites an article to a higher standard for class credit. I also note that this article is linked to very few other articles, even ones on African societies that would be a "must" in terms of completeness of the latter (I added one to Fula people and one to Mandé, just to get it started). Sorry no references to pass on, offhand, though some for West Africa in particular are in French. --A12n 17:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Someone needs to correct the portion relating to Tutsis. Ganwa and Hima are both terms synonymous for Tutsi. Ganwa refers to the royal clan in Burundi. Drawing parallels between ubuhake and the Indian caste system is wrong, as the Indian caste system was far more rigid. There was much intermarriage and upward as well as downward mobility in ancient Rwanda.

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Article does not reflect title in that it only includes information on part of Africa. Needs further information on the other countries in Africa.--Utinomen (talk) 21:35, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

caste system and slavery are tossed together

I researched contemporary slavery in Mauritania and Mali, (Moorish and Tuareg communities). I was told by many that in Africa, there is a clear distinction between 'slaves' and 'caste' groups. Slaves, if their 'former' owners stick to the tradition, don't own anything really themselves, not even their children. When a slave dies, a representative of his owner comes to collect the valuables. When a baby is born to a slave, it is usually named not after its biological parents, but after the owner of the mother. Rurally, children are often separated from their mothers and forced to work without wages in the family of the owner. Many slaves in Mauritania (and Chad, although I know much less about Chad) are paying money every year, already for decades, to buy their own freedom. If and when that freedom comes, is at the discretion of their owner. So the power of the owner over the slave is very direct and individual.

In a Sahelian cast-system, it is much more a system in which a noble family collectively 'manages' (and takes tribute from) a lower cast village. At least the lowest casts 'own' their children and their private stuff. While they are usually not allowed to own land, to build permanent things such as wells, latrines or brick houses, to graze large cattle, to trade beyond what they can carry manually. They are 'only' supposed to pay tribute, and refrain from attempts to achieve upward social (and geographical) mobility.

A cast system runs through economic monopolies in owning land and in economic activities being 'assigned' to casts, with people having relative freedom within their own assigned niches. In contemporary slavery the relation is one of pure ownership and full control over every aspect of the slaves live, often including even a denial of the right of the slave to adhere to any religion.

So how do we get that explained in Wikipedia? Start the article with explaining the split, and referring to contemporary African slavery?Pieter Felix Smit (talk) 13:37, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Slavery and caste systems are two separate systems. There are places that link the two, but that does not prove that they are a unified system. Some of the sections of the article discuss caste and slavery as if they were closely linked. I think some editors are unclear in their thinking so have confused these two when they edit, e.g. Borana. Would it be acceptable to remove such explanations of slavery. Pete unseth (talk) 14:52, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Would it make more sense to discuss caste systems?

Greetings! Looking through this article, I notice that we're discussing a number of different social systems. As such, would it not make more sense to move the article to "Caste systems in Africa" and modify the phrasing within the article accordingly? I was tempted to "be bold" and just make it happen, but I thought it would be better to solicit other opinions here. Tigercompanion25 (talk) 14:49, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Ok, a week later and no one has opined on this, so I'm going to move the article to "Caste systems in Africa". If someone objects, they can revert it and we can discuss it here (see WP:BRD). Tigercompanion25 (talk) 15:24, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Bilal slave of Mohamed ?

Bilal wasn't a slave of Mohamed, I think this should be fixed. YassineChaouche (talk) 13:51, 6 May 2019 (UTC)