Talk:Castle on the Hill

Requested move 7 January 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus after reading all of the arguments for and against the move. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Dane ^talk 03:46, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

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Castle on the Hill (Ed Sheeran song) → Castle on the Hill – While I do understand the intention of the disambiguation page, I believe it is completely unnecessary as the Ride song on Tarantula was never released as a single. Plus, even though the song was just released today, it already is very popular on iTunes charts around the world and "(Ed Sheeran song)" is not necessary. 2601:8C:4001:DCB9:7412:C387:48CA:9A6C (talk) 00:34, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

• Support the move. Sheeran's song has already received significant media coverage, and is bound to become more significant in coming weeks as it impacts record charts. The only other topic covered by the disambiguation page is a song with no article of its own. The disambiguation could be handled with a hatnote along the lines of "For the Ride song, see Tarantula." on this article. Songsteel (talk) 02:49, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
• Comment – Is the disambiguation page even necessary? A tag with the Ride song could just be used at the top. I actually just redirected the disambiguation page to here. 2601:8C:4001:DCB9:B81B:874E:B1CB:BACB (talk) 03:17, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose, There was a separate disambiguation page at The Castle on the Hill that I've merged as none of the items on that page require the define article. I've never heard of Ed Sheeran or the song, but if that song is particularly noteworthy for some reason, I've no objection to moving the disambiguation page to Castle on the Hill (disambiguation). older ≠ wiser 03:39, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
• Reluctantly support - If there is no other challenging topic, the Ed Sheeran song should take a piece of cake. Though pop culture phenomenon usually doesn't make one primary, I see just two of the exact same name. --George Ho (talk) 05:50, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
• Support agree with Songsteel on all points. --Jennica✿ / ^talk 18:59, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose following @Bkonrad:'s completely correct (per normal dab practice regarding "The") merger of the two dab pages. It's evident in books that a large number of the dozen mainly college buildings found in en.wp articles and in books as "The Castle on the Hill" could just as easily be searched by readers without the article. In particular US readers trying to identify the formal name of the building known colloquially in their state/town as "Castle on the Hill" are not going to helped by being sent to a brand new song about motorway speeding by an English songwriter. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:44, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
• Comment - The song may be getting "significant" press today, but that is because it was just released. Tell me how much news it is still getting a month from now. Kellymoat (talk) 09:58, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
• Support agree with Songsteel strongly. The disambiguation page hosts no actual singular pages for any article except for the Sheeran song. Given his music popularity and the publicity surrounding the song, it seems fitting to have the page title directly link to the songs title. HeyJude70 (talk) 14:04, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose based on new discussion. If there are that many articles (and other topics without an article) related to either Castle on the Hill or The Castle on the Hill, the disambiguation in this article's title does seem warranted and Castle on the Hill should remain a disamgibuation page. Songsteel (talk) 16:42, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose for now, but move to Castle on the Hill (song). It's too recent to know if it's a clear-cut primary topic over all the other uses, and regardless, the dab ought to stay. However, there are no other notable songs of this title, so per WP:NCSONG the title should be Castle on the Hill (song).--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:17, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
• Support or at the very least a hasty move to Castle on the Hill (song) as there are no other relevant singles with that page name. BlaccCrab (talk) 10:39, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
• Support - only notable topic called "Castle on the Hill". Unreal7 (talk) 00:25, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose and agree with Cuchullain. Mato (talk) 00:54, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:RECENTISM. We don't move pages around on the basis of what's a popular song this week.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  04:35, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

But when only one subject has a shred of notability, we do. Unreal7 (talk) 17:49, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

It not established that the song has any enduring notability. It has won no awards and there is little independent coverage other than advertorial blurbs announcing the release. older ≠ wiser 18:02, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 15 January 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved by MSGJ. Ss112 04:42, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

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Castle on the Hill (Ed Sheeran song) → Castle on the Hill (song) – Regardless of whether or not any parenthesis is needed, right now it's the only song with an article. Therefore, it doesn't require the artist's name, as we established here last year. Unreal7 (talk) 23:18, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

• Support, no point in keeping the title when no other songs with this name have an article. Life of Tau (talk) 23:53, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
• Support, and I am a bit annoyed because the previous discussion should have at least moved this article to that name. 2601:8C:4001:DCB9:C6C:AD57:71D6:80DE (talk) 18:07, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
• Support per WP:NCMDAB and the RfC linked above. Frankly, this should have been done in the last RM.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:30, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
• Support Yeah, this is stupid. Why hasn't it at least been moved to (song) rather than (Ed Sheeran song) when there's literally no other songs with an article. Just move this already. BlaccCrab (talk) 18:28, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
• I've moved the article for you — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:03, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Edit request (18 Jan)

"Castle on the Hill" recently just peaked at #6 on the Hot 100 chart. Please update it. Any patrolling admins should also look over to Talk:Shape of You and do necessary adjustments. Thanks. Nahnah4 (talk | contribs | guestbook) 13:20, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Page has now been unprotected, so edit has been carried out.

Requested move 11 September 2017

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. Clear absence of consensus to move. bd2412 T 14:43, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

• Castle on the Hill (song) → Castle on the Hill
• Castle on the Hill → Castle on the Hill (disambiguation)

– This move was initially requested eight months ago upon the song's release, and eight months later, this song has proven to be a massive chart success around the world. So out of all the subjects on the dab page, I think at this point, it deserves to be a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. JE98 (talk) 20:30, 11 September 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. TheDoctorWho (talk) 00:52, 19 September 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 00:41, 28 September 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. DrStrauss talk 18:29, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose cannot think it serves anyone to remove (song) off a song, not with all those buildings combined. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:47, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose - nothing has changed in the last 8 months. Pure recentism. Chase (talk | contributions) 19:09, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
• Support. Few if any of the buildings listed on the dab page are called "Castle on the Hill" as anything but a nickname, so it's unlikely people are really using that search term to find them. Either way, the song receives 78.8% of the traffic of all those topics combined.[1] And that includes all the hits under their actual names, so the percentage of readers actually using "Castle on the Hill" for any of those other topics is very small.--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Unreal7 (talk) 21:44, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
• Support – This is a single by a major artist that reached the top five of over 20 international record charts and has been certified multi-platinum in many markets. No other article has this name. LifeofTau 22:34, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose – transient popularity is not a good reason for a primarytopic grab over all the other topics. Dicklyon (talk) 01:16, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose - chance of ambiguity increases over time, there could easily be other notable examples of a 'castle on the hill' in future MfortyoneA (talk) 07:58, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is a notable song but it's no She Loves You... or at least has yet to demonstrate this. Andrewa (talk) 03:09, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
• Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The previous two !votes have WP:BALL in reverse - we don't know what the future popularity of topics called "Castle on the Hill" might look like, but we do know that now, our readers are choosing this one. And again, it is the only article on a topic with this name, which is a compelling primarytopic argument in its own right. Dohn joe (talk) 14:53, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
• Support - what? I can't believe anybody would really oppose this one, it looks a no-brainer to me. A major worldwide song, compared with a couple of obscure books, a not-well-known song and some buildings which aren't actually called "Castle on the Hill", it's just a nickname. The song's sales and chart success mean it's guaranteed to be notable going forward, and it doesn't have to be "She Loves You" to achieve that status. Clear primary topic by long term significance and common usage, as well as receiving 78% of page views (as noted by Cuchullain above).  — Amakuru (talk) 10:55, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose as WP:RECENTISM and because nothing has changed since the 7 January RM. WP:RM is not a process for giving primacy to one's favorites songs and artists.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  21:05, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

  Most of the above oppose votes appear to be merely because people don't like the artist or song. If there was a genuine other contender for the title, other than nicknames for some buildings, then sure, recentism might apply, but as it is I see no objective evidence presented above that any of the other "Castle on the Hill" entries are anywhere near as significant for the term as this one.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:52, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

  Just because WP:PRIMARYTOPIC can often apply doesn't mean it applies to every term or phrase. There are lots of things called this, and something temporarily popular this year isn't a primary topic for a phrase that's been in use this long and so broadly. Another way of looking at it is that trying to find a primary topic for every single name is a solution looking for a problem. You're also mischaracterizing the above comments; an observation that the song's popularity is transitory has nothing at all to do with "because people don't like the artist or song". Even Andrewa's comment isn't about that, but about lack of RS indicating that this song is perceived multi-generationally as a classic; we can't know until much more time as passed. Referring to WP:BALL or to WP:RECENTISM are two ways of making the same point.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  01:09, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

  As Dohn joe rightly points out above, you've got WP:BALL the wrong way round. You're predicting that this song will not be seen as a major one in future, even though it is seen as a major song now. The default is to assume that things don't change, not that they do change.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:38, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose per oppose reasoning from editors above. Keeping this as (song) assures that readers will find it easily, and if it is described as a classic or iconic song within a couple of years this can be revisited. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:01, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

French charts

Hello. The article of Wikipedia indicates that the single peaked at 3rd position on top French singles. However, the used source lescharts.com takes into account only the downloaded singles. While the website of the SNEP (National Syndicate of the Phonographic Edition), takes into account the streaming and the downloads. Would not it be better to indicate the classification(ranking) of the downloads, as well as that of sales + equivalent units? Land and travel (talk) 10:25, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 2 January 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Pages moved. (non-admin closure)  sami  ^talk 00:01, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

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• Castle on the Hill (song) → Castle on the Hill
• Castle on the Hill → Castle on the Hill (disambiguation)

I know this is the third time I brought this up and I realize this may get on a lot of people's nerves, but I need to again state that this is the only topic on the dab page literally called "Castle on the Hill" and, after being a hit single throughout 2017, is definitely the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC over the other topics. JE98 (talk) 01:02, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

• Support per Cuchullain's link in the 2nd RM: page view stats. The numbers haven't changed since; this song massively outweighs all the other targets even if the other targets were all variants of Castle on the Hill (building at Fairhaven). That suggests a move anyway. But the other articles aren't at "Castle on a Hill"; it's just a nickname, and sometimes a totally unsourced nickname. I doubt that very many hits on these articles come from the disambiguation page, so the real page view slant is even worse. You can argue recentism, but reader preference is so overwhelming that this shouldn't apply anyway. SnowFire (talk) 05:33, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
• Support anything by Ed Sheeran occupies a central position in the history of world civilization. There is no need to qualify any such important content with (song) or (Ed Sheeran), they are the automatic first choice of man and womankind. :) In ictu oculi (talk) 14:11, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
• Support per nom. This is the clear primary topic. Calidum 15:38, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
• Support per previous !vote. Dohn joe (talk) 16:29, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
• Support. As noted above, the song continues to receive 70+% of the page views among all those other topics combined, even though most if not all the topics are not actually called "Castle on the Hill" except as a nickname. This is the clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:46, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.