Talk:Causes of the 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests
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Potential improvement of the article
editI am pretty pissed that some user had tagged the article with NPOV tag as well as changing the section title from conspiracy theory to accusation , as well as put update tag in that section, claiming there is new evidence.
I had remove those tag, please cite reliable source that present the cause by logic (and not those conspiracy theory from Chinese / Russian propaganda) in talk page or in article in order to justify the wiki article is biased.
Yes, there are more background information that had stated in the interview of a Harvard University professor that to be incorporated into the wiki article, but I don't wanna dig too much on writing the anti-government atmosphere for example or the social state of young people. I would violate original research policy if I dig too much news article as cite for Hong Kong society in general. I would rather wait for academician to write their research paper, and I read it, summarize and wrote it in the wiki article. Matthew hk (talk) 23:28, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- Here is another article by CNN.[1] Not sure it is WP:DUE to list as another background information. Matthew hk (talk) 17:35, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
- Amnesty International Hong Kong had published a report regarding the CCP / Central Government influence of HK and the outbreak of the protest.[2] But not sure there are sufficient news report about the report or not,[3] or it is WP:DUE to include in this article. Matthew hk (talk) 17:04, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
References
- ^ "He spends half his $1,300 monthly salary on rent. This is why he's fighting for a fairer Hong Kong". CNN. 18 August 2019. Retrieved 22 August 2019.
- ^ 北京的紅線
- ^ 【反修例】國際特赦組織促港府 對抗北京「紅線」 維護香港人權
Erosion of semi-autonomous status, encroachment by China
editThe erosion of freedoms, rule of law, and semi-autonomous status as prescribed by the 1997 handover agreement is clearly one of the reasons for the protest. Can someone provide some articles discussing this ? Just some references for citation is sufficient, I can add content to wikipedia Phileo (talk) 15:54, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
- Here is some info about Mainland China having legal jurisdiction on Hong Kong soil:
- Hope that helps! 65.60.163.223 (talk) 04:28, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
- @65.60.163.223: i had already told you in other talk page that
you need an exact article that saying X cause Y (which Y is the protests), not an article saying Hong Kong had problem A and to F, and as a wiki editor, made an original conclusion that problem A to F in Hong Kong are the cause of the protests. Please read WP:synthesis.
.
- @65.60.163.223: i had already told you in other talk page that
- There two articles you cited in the talk page, are not from this year, thus it can't prove problem A is the cause of the protest. Only it may be a supplementary citation for problem A. You still need a citation for "problem A cause the 2019 protest". Matthew hk (talk) 17:44, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Matthew hk: Yes, of course! 65.60.163.223 (talk) 21:25, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Phileo: Here are a few more articles to check out:
- Simmer nears boil in Hong Kong [The Harvard Gazette] – "What has happened, I think, are a number of significant events in which China has tried to push through measures that challenge Hong Kong’s identity, and those have created uncertainty about how long the leadership in Beijing will really stay committed to that 50-year process."
- Hong Kong Protests: How Did We Get Here? [The Diplomat] – "The current protests are the result of an accumulation of distrust between the Hong Kong people and the governments in Hong Kong and Beijing."
- Why are there massive protests in Hong Kong? [The Washington Post] – "All these protests grow from concerns that Hong Kong’s leaders will bow to pressure from Beijing to rein in dissent — and put Hong Kong’s democracy at risk despite promises from the U.K. and Chinese governments to preserve Hong Kong’s autonomy."
- Hong Kong Protesters Are Fueled by a Broader Demand, More Democracy [The New York Times] – "The city’s embattled leader, Carrie Lam, asserted on Tuesday that the bill that would have allowed extraditions to mainland China was 'dead' and would not be revived. But she also acknowledged that the protests were driven by broader problems dating to a failed 2014 pro-democracy movement that sought genuine, freer elections."
- There’s an identity crisis at the core of Hong Kong’s protest paroxysms [The Globe and Mail] – "If there had been a semblance of choice regarding Chinese nationality, then the sense of resentment today would not be as great. After all, Hong Kongers would have voluntarily decided to become citizens of the People’s Republic of China. They would not feel that the nationality had been foisted on them and, consequently, that their freedom was threatened – the root cause of these protests that show no sign of abating."
- Tiny Apartments and Punishing Work Hours, The Economic Roots of Hong Kong’s Protests [The New York Times] – "Anger over the growing power of mainland China in everyday life has fueled the protests, as has the desire of residents to choose their own leaders. But beneath that political anger lurks an undercurrent of deep anxiety over their own economic fortunes — and fears that it will only get worse."
- The hidden cause that helped ignite Hong Kong's massive protests: housing prices [National Post] – "'There is nowhere to go except smaller and smaller properties that at some point become inhuman,' says Cherian George, a professor of media studies at Hong Kong Baptist University. 'The failure that has led to the current situation is really a failure of the Hong Kong government, the unaffordable cost of living, and that really is the most important factor.'"
- So, nothing conclusive ... but it's a start. 65.60.163.223 (talk) 03:58, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
This article is biased against China.
editMany Hong Kong people have a xenophobic hatred of Mainlanders and the causes listed here are sometimes excuses. Try to at least show both sides of the story.
One small point to easily correct: In the footnote, the use of the word "excuse" shows your prejudice. At least switch it to 'reason' to pretend to be neutral.
The murder of Poon in Taiwan, was the excuse of the government to revise the existing extradition bill in order to extradite the suspect from Hong Kong to Taiwan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.200.249.8 (talk) 2019-11-09T01:27:17 (UTC)
Removal of sections
editI suggest that 'Impact' and the 'Allegations of foreign influence' sections be removed as they are not causes of the protests they are results/reactions and are covered in more detail in other articles. RealFakeKim (talk) 20:04, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose It just censorship. Wikipedia is a tertiary source that summarized secondary source. It have quite a many pro-China media to accuses it have foreign influence (or accusation that CIA directed it, whatever it is true or not), then per NPOV policy it should be included. And yet CNN citing police info, wikipedia don't have power and man power to rebut it as fake so it also worth to mention. Matthew hk (talk) 13:51, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
- Understood, although I think Allegations of foreign influence should be kept on the reaction page as it is not a cause. RealFakeKim (talk) 16:32, 12 December 2019 (UTC)