Talk:Societat de Beneficència de Naturals de Catalunya

--Castellbo (talk) 06:07, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Inappropriate Title

I would dispute that the best translation for Naturals in Societat de Beneficència dels Naturals de Catalunya is natives, as the term native in English carries connotations of indigeneity in this context, which certainly does not apply to Cubans of Catalonian extraction. I would propose that a better translation of the name is Charitable Society for those of Catalan Origin. Alternatively, we could use one of the other names of the organization, Casal Català or Beneficencia Catalana, which translate more directly as Catalan House and Catalan Charity, respectively; Rosguill (talk) 19:18, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

@Rosguill: Another approach: "Charitable society for Sons and Daughters of Catalonia" HTH, Mathglot (talk) 13:13, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

@Mathglot: What would the motivation be for 'Sons and Daughters'? It sounds nice (and I'd say it's better than the current title), but it strays a bit further from the literal Catalonian name. Rosguill (talk) 18:11, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Rosguill I think your original idea is more literally correct, though the "those of" sounds slightly awkward. There are organizations that use either the "Sons of..." or "Daughters of..." formulation in English, so thought I would mention that as an alternative, since you raised the discussion. I'm not saying it's better, and as you know, translation is an inexact art, and sometimes (a lot of the time) no alternative is perfect. In the case of a title, it's hard to be both succinct and faithful to the original at the same time. Placing the tag on the article was the right thing to do; I added a link to this discussion to it. Mathglot (talk) 20:41, 5 January 2018 (UTC) Mathglot (talk) 20:41, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Another possibility: Wikipedia:Article titles#Foreign names and anglicization says, If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader. The flip side of that, is that if you can't easily translate the title without loss of accuracy, then just leave the title in the original. In that case, you can add {{italic title}} to the top, and provide the English translation in the first sentence. This might be the best solution here. Mathglot (talk) 21:01, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Agreed, maintaining the Catalan name sounds like the best solution Rosguill (talk) 01:35, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

We should get buy-in from some major contributors before doing a move, starting with Castellbo, who created it, and @Faberspen21, Cambioradical, and Rathfelder: who contributed. Mathglot (talk) 03:46, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Rosguill, so, turns out Faberspen21 was a one-day wonder, Cambioradical hasn't been around for over a year, although Rathfelder is current. We could solicit opinions from WT:CATALAN if we want more input, but I'm willing to do the move if we wait a couple of weeks and there's no objection. I'm busy on a lot of things, feel free to {{ping}} me here around Jan 20 or so, and we'll do it then, if there's no objection. Sound good? Mathglot (talk) 06:13, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Mathglot, leave the title in the original language and provide the english translation in the first sentence. Castellbo (talk) 09:17, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Mathglot sounds like a planRosguill (talk) 22:05, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been linked from WT:CATALAN. Mathglot (talk) 22:38, 6 January 2018 (UTC)