Talk:Chavismo

Untitled

that's great, so what is chavismo again? 219.74.57.232 14:21, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

What really is Chavismo?

Well, Chavismo is a kind of Neo-Fascism. Such as Fascism was, Chavismo is: 1-Anti-americanist. 2-Statist. 3-Corrupt. 4-Demagogue. 5-Personalist. 6-Anti-semithist. 7-Militarist. 8-Friend of growing of public spending. 9-A Left's movement. Agre22 (talk) 00:25, 4 December 2009 (UTC)agre22

Wikipedia is not a forum. Do you have sources to support those assertions? JRSP (talk) 11:12, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

users like agre22 are the same type of editors that edited this page to make the Chavez supporters seem "evil". That was why it was marked as non neutral. I like wikipedia, but this site MUST improve on their neutrality standards if they are to stay successful.

What agenda are users like Agree22 and Zialater are trying to promote!?

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Neutrality

This article is not neutral. It does not say anything about the criticisms to Chavismo, such as its populism and autoritarism Cambalachero (talk) 13:47, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

it comes across as too critical to me, tbh. the last quote is very obviously a neoliberal opinion piece rather than an actual material analysis of the situation. 109.154.216.60 (talk) 22:10, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

agreed, it needs more about the criticism in the opening. Obviously criticism is coming from more on the political spectrum than just "neoliberals." Klayman55 (talk) 10:48, 23 January 2020 (UTC)Klayman55

This was too critical, not talking about the positive but focusing on the negative is one of the pet peeves of this article, it has literally turned into a circle-jerk rant about Chavismo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.155.141.7 (talk) 18:29, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Exactly, a good article needs information on both positive and negative assessments on its subject in order to be unbiased. On that note, a section about "Critical Chavismo" (i.e. dissident Chavistas) would be a good start. Charles Essie (talk) 19:21, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Paraphrasing vs Block Quotes

Relative to the total content, much of the information is block quotes. Wiki prefers paraphrasing. Something to consider for future edits. --Lucas559 (talk) 16:53, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Dating commentary (and 'placing' past optimism)

The section Commentary has various quotes, some of which have dates of the commentaries noted. The comment with introduction "The Nation noted on its editorial pages that:" has no date, and is jarring (now) in its positivism. If the date were noted, Dec 2007, the reader would be more likely to place the circumstances for the positive evaluation. Much has happened in the ensuing 10 years... Shenme (talk) 17:07, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 17 March 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus; so leave it for now. Dicklyon (talk) 04:33, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

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Chavism → Chavismo – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Charles Essie (talk) 00:47, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• oppose WP:USEENGLISH on English Wikipedia, not Spanish. The English name is "Chavism" while the Spanish name is "Chavismo". Looking at Spanish language for the Common Name is not the correct way to name topics. Otherwise, why not use Cyrillic for Russian topics? -- 70.51.46.39 (talk) 04:28, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• Chavismo is used in the majority of English-language media.[1][2][3][4][5][6] Charles Essie (talk) 14:25, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support Chavismo seems to be more commonly used in English language sources than chavism. Plantdrew (talk) 16:11, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support. "Chavismo" definitely appears to be the WP:COMMONNAME in English.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:40, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
• oppose Chavism returns as many hits as chavismo, while plenty of these are Spanish and Portuguese hits. Irxvini (talk) 16:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

• All the major media sources use Chavismo. Charles Essie (talk) 18:28, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

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Chavismo

I don't know why they seem to think otherwise, but I think we had consensus to move. Charles Essie (talk) 23:25, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

@Charles Essie: Significantly, the page was originally at Chavismo and then moved to Chavism without discussion. I was able to undo this move. The argument that high-quality English-language sources use Chavismo I find compelling. Also, Chavism looks strange, as it could easily be taken to refer to the chav phenomenon instead. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 22:22, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

@Florian Blaschke: It appears that this article has been moved back. We might have no choice but to start another move discussion. Charles Essie (talk) 23:09, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

I've moved it back, again. Berty688 had missed or ignored my argument that the original move – from Chavismo to Chavism – had already been invalid because it had happened without discussion; therefore the status quo is Chavismo. This was also not recognised in the discussion above. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 22:34, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

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Marxism/Communism

No mention of either. This article needs a complete overhaul. Gabrielthursday (talk) 03:40, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

WP:SOFIXIT Bluesphere 09:02, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 3 November 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 10:50, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

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Chavism → Chavismo – This page has been moved back and forth about four times now. It's clear that we need to have another discussion. @70.51.46.39, AdjectivesAreBad, Anthony Appleyard, Berty688, Cuchullain, Florian Blaschke, Irxvini, and Plantdrew: I invite you all to participate. Charles Essie (talk) 18:34, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose Keep at "Chavism" Cambalachero (talk) 19:05, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
• Support "Chavismo" is the word most commonly used in English-language reliable sources from editorials in The Guardian to The Atlantic to Foreign Policy magazine. "Chavism" is virtually an invention of Wikipedians. Ngram up to 2008 records no results for "Chavism". "Chavism" produces 109,000 results on Google; chavismo produces 4,690,000. Chavismo is far and away the WP:COMMONNAME. The usual dishonest WP:UE battleground nonsense needs to stop. Again, WP:UE does not prohibit the use of non-English words on Wikipedia, it simply recommends using the most common name in English-language sources. The very first sentence of UE makes this clear: "The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language" - which, in this case, is Chavismo. AusLondonder (talk) 01:11, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
• Support, put back at stable title "Chavismo" is the word most commonly used in serious English-language reliable sources not just the Guardian. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:39, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
• Support per common name policy. Neodop (talk) 18:12, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
• Support. Chavismo appears to be the common name. Never heard of "Chavism". As another user said, it would seem to refer to the mindset of a "chav". What's next, "Machism"? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 11:52, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
  • Second half of that at least isn't a valid rationale; machismo isn't a neologism, it's a standard Spanish word (-ismo = English -sm); English borrowed the word from Spanish, didn't make it up.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  16:54, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

    The reference to "machism" there was meant as a tongue-in cheek appeal to common sense. Like machismo, Chavismo also appears to have been borrowed (see "Populism in Venezuela: The Rise of Chavismo") and also works fine in its usual context. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 04:32, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Was intuitively inclined to oppose per MOS:NEO ("chavismo" is a recently coined joke name; "chavism" is standard English word formation: noun + -ism); and citing a Guardian and Atlantic article doesn't prove anything about commonness. However, chavismo occurs in Google N-grams while chavism does not, and usage of chavismo in news sources [7] utterly dwarfs that of chavism [8].  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  16:54, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

  The proper noun here is Chávez, so standard English noun + ism would give Chavezism. Deconstruct Chavism instead and you get chav, as I mentioned. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 04:21, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

• Support. Just because "chavism" is technically a more standard formation doesn't have any bearing on what form English language sources actually use — in fact, it's very normal these days for English language sources to simply use the existing foreign-language form for a concept like this (see also caudillo) rather than trying to force-create a variant "English" term. And WP:UE doesn't require us to force an English title formation, either — it requires us to use the name that's actually seen in actual usage, which is chavismo. Bearcat (talk) 21:38, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose plenty of news uses "chavism" as much as "chavismo", as the latter is added with Spanish ones and made it impossible to know exactly how much it's used, I stay with the perfectly fine English spelling. Swynyard (talk) 12:34, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

  It's not really "English spelling" if it's not a recognized word in English. Some news outlets may use the neologism chavism, but it's certainly not in the dictionary. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 04:21, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

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